John's Log [Archive] - Marty Gallagher Purposefully Primitive Discussion Forum

John Prink

12-12-2005, 11:41 PM

Its been awhile since I've posted workouts....work is killing me...lots of hours but I do manage to get my workouts in...

120605 - Deadlift day

135x10
205x10
245x5
315x5
335x5
355x5
365x1 with a belt on
195x 2 sets of 10 while standing on 45 pound plates

Leg curls - old strap on leg weights 4x25 9my seated leg curl machine is in repair....seems the welds holding the thing together decided to give out so I had to figure out an alternative other than SLDL's....which would put me over the edge for lower back work.

Barbell Hack squats - 2x10 at 155

Toe raises - 255x3x15

DB shrugs - 100's for 2x10

Abs.....side bends and leg raises

I really think the Hack squats, hamstring work and side bends have gone a long way in helping me succeed in the DL....

Overall a great workout....on track for a 430 DL in the spring of 2006..

Heavy bench pressing tomorrow if my shoulders aren't too tired from deadlifting...

Last time I deadlifted was 11/27 according to my log....so 8-10 days seems to be a good cycle for me as far as time off between deadlifting.

The box squats I'm doing on alternate days are really helping my deadlift too....Hail to Louie Simmons for turning me onto this exercise!!! LOL!!!

Heavy BP day

2x8 with 95
1x5 with 135
1x3 with 150
1x2 with 165
4x4 with 180 - really easy felt solid

EZ bar curls 110 for 5 sets of 5

Decline DB extensions - 3x8 with 26.5 pounders

Combo of bent laterals, followed by side laterals, followed by alternate front raises all for 10 reps each...

I omitted rows today because I deadlifted yesterday.

Ab work....

JP

John Prink

12-12-2005, 11:51 PM

Here's what I'm presently doing in terms of powerlifting:

I compete in push/pull meets so I train only the DL and the BP for max efforts. The squat I use as a means to an end....and for building DL power.

Upper body day is broken down into two different bench press workouts; basically a light day and a heavy day. The heavy day is further broken down into three different workouts.

The lower body day is basically a deadlift workout with assistance and a box squat workout with assistance.

Here's a typical week:

Upper Body day:

Heavy BP day

2sets of 8
1set of5
1x3
1x2
4x5

Curls
Triceps work
Seated high incline presses
Seated rows
abdominal work

Lower body day -

Deadlift - generally warmup and get to a max set of 5 reps

Leg curls - I have my seated leg curl machine temporarily fixed so I am using it

Toe Raises
Hack squats with a barbell
DB shrugs
Abdominal work

Next upper body day

Lighter BP for sets 4 sets of 10 after warming up followed by the same assistance work

Ab work.

Next lower body day:

Box squats 10-12 sets of 2 reps

leg curls
toe raises
Hack squats
DB shrugs and abdominal work

I keep rotating the days. I have no fixed days to train but rather try to train every other day. The way the routine is set up I get plenty of rest between training days for the BP and the DL.....

JeffS

12-13-2005, 10:13 AM

Old Olympic Lifter

12-13-2005, 09:41 PM

Hi again,John

That's an impressive looking training plan,very similar to the WSB principles.Great work on the deadlifts,John,a 430 single should be a 'piece of cake' by springtime. :D
BTW,how's the bodyweight these days,are you having any difficulties staying within the 165lb class limit?

Regards and best wishes
Ron

John Prink

12-14-2005, 05:36 AM

That's an impressive looking training plan,very similar to the WSB principles.Great work on the deadlifts,John,a 430 single should be a 'piece of cake' by springtime. :D
BTW,how's the bodyweight these days,are you having any difficulties staying within the 165lb class limit?

Ron,

165? boy, I hope not.....LOL!! I'm at the end of the weight class at about 162-163...with the holidays approaching fast, and my wife's cooking, chances are I'll be in the 198's by January...LOL!!!!

i'm going to try to stay where I'm at, but if I gain any muscle mass....that may be difficult.

JP

John Prink

12-14-2005, 05:40 AM

John, a good hamstring alternative to leg curls are plate drags.

Lie on the floor, on your back.
Put your heel in the center hole of a 25, 35 or 45 lb plate.

Drag(pull) vigorously into your buttocks, extend leg and repeat.

This is a sprinter exercise, and for my money, superior to leg curls. My hamstrings never fail to cramp on a set of 10.

HI Jeff,

Hey thanks for the tip. I've heard about this exercise. Presumably you're doing these one foot at a time, right?

I was using ankle weights and doing leg curls while lying on my bench when it was in a decline position.....feet/legs lower than head. Seemed to work pretty good for cramping up the hamstrings. I just didn't like the endless reps I needed to do to feel anything.

Your alternative sounds great. Are you doing these? I'm actually training this morning later on, and I'll have to try these out for sure.....sounds like fun. Sets of 10, huh? I'm on it!

Cheers,

JP

JeffS

12-14-2005, 09:58 AM

John, my training in general, but particularly my squat is pretty sporadic right now. I stepped on a rock a couple of weeks ago and rolled my bad ankle. I've irritated it by slipping on ice with the recent snow.

But, yes when I'm hitting on all cylinders I do an Ed Coan cycle of squats, pause squats, hamstring exercise (plate drags - one leg at a time) and adductors on the machine.

John Prink

12-14-2005, 07:44 PM

Well, I was warming up the other day for DL's and managed to pull my sacroiliac pretty good.....have to rest for awhile....Chiro says it just spasmed and will be right in a few days....time to just relax and wait out the pain. Nothing I can do

JP

John Prink

12-14-2005, 07:48 PM

One question about the plate drags. How do you make them more progressive? Do just add reps to a set or add sets?

JP

Old Olympic Lifter

12-15-2005, 12:26 AM

Hi John

" Well,I was warming up the other day for DL's and managed to pull my sacroiliac pretty good.....have to rest for awhile....Chiro says it just spasmed and will be right in a few days....time to just relax and wait out the pain. Nothing I can do."
A quick question.Are all your training deadlifts performed in sumo style?.If so,then the lower back could well prove to be your 'weak link',as perusing your training schedule again,I don't see any specific exercises there for strengthening it.
John,if you've ever seen any of the training programs of Ed Coan and Ricky Crain,two of the greatest alltime sumo deadlifters,you'll observe that they both devoted EQUAL time to the conventional deadlift in their schedules.Just a thought.

Regards and best wishes
Ron

JeffS

12-15-2005, 11:17 AM

John, regarding making the plate drag resistance more progressive.

I've never gone beyond a 45 pound plate personally. My regular gym floor is carpeted so there is not too much friction. I've lifted at other gyms with rubber matted flooring and the drags are more difficult.

You could also add reps/sets.

One other thing I've considered is laying 5 lb or 10 lb plates on top of the 45 lb plate, possibly securing them with two-sided carpet tape.

John Prink

12-15-2005, 02:13 PM

A quick question.Are all your training deadlifts performed in sumo style?.If so,then the lower back could well prove to be your 'weak link',as
John,if you've ever seen any of the training programs of Ed Coan and Ricky Crain,two of the greatest alltime sumo deadlifters,you'll observe that they both devoted EQUAL time to the conventional deadlift in their schedules.Just a thought.

Yes all my training deadlifts are sumo. I cannot do conventional style without back pain. Though short in stature, I have long legs making conventional style uncomfortable, hence the reason for sumos.

I do no other specific lower back work mainly because I find the deadlifts enough. Anymore lower back work would put me over the edge.

What happened was this: I have two Olympic bars I set up for deadlift training. One is a thicker shorter bar of about 40 pounds, which I first load up with 45's. I do my first set of 10 with that. I then add two 35's to that bar, making it 200 pounds. Because of the size of these plates, my pull is a little longer than usual. I failed to place the collars on the and as a result, the plates oscilated a bit to much, on the second rep of the set. I tried to correct it, got out of position and popped my back.

The second bar I have set up is a standard Olympic bar of 45 pounds. I have two 100 pound plates on that bar. So the bar is maybe an inch or so higher becasue of the thickness of these plates. I have no problem with this bar.

I also was doing a set of sumo deadlifts while standing on some 45's which made my pull a little longer and I think over the period of a few weeks, instead of making my back stronger, it was placed in a position of disadvantage and had become a little weaker actually.

I was up to 355x5 and 365 for a triple prior to the back strain.

I purposely do not do exercises like bent over rows with a barbell because of the strain it puts on my back. I have a seated row machine in my home gym which I use.

It's just an old injury from 20 years ago that came back.....

It's healing....

Cheers,

JP

John Prink

12-15-2005, 02:14 PM

JeffS

12-15-2005, 03:03 PM

John Prink

12-15-2005, 08:10 PM

John, do you have any equipment or any means for doing back extensions(back raises)?

Unweighted they are excellent for rehab and after your back is feeling better, adding some resistance via a rubber band around the neck or upper back, holding a medicine ball or holding a plate would be a useful addition to your deadlifting. They would allow you to strengthen your core without over-stressing your low back.

Also, do you do weighted ab work for low reps? An imbalance between abdominal and low back strength can contribute to back problems.

Hi Jeff,

I can do back raises. I have a very complete gym set up in my basement. I do a lot of abdominal work too. I do weighted barbell sidebend, weighted Roman chair sit-ups and leg raises as ab work at every workout. In fact, doing the weighted ab work was responsible for actually helping me with hoisting heavier deadlifts. I also do a lot of hamstring work.

My little mishap was a variety of things: gym too cold, and me out of position while pulling, forgot toput collars on bar so plates wouldn't rattle....

John Prink

12-15-2005, 08:15 PM

BP workout 12/15/05

2x8@95
1x5@135
1x3@150
1x2@165
4x3@185

Special bar with V grip for floor presses- 3x10-12

Seated DB press - 3x12

Curls - 3 sets

Seated Rows - 3 sets

Abs

THis bench workout I'm presently on is one of the best I've tried so far and believe it or not I found it on the internet....LOL!!

JP

John Prink

12-16-2005, 04:30 PM

Back is much better today....I may start training lower body light tomorrow if everything holds out..........

JP

Old Olympic Lifter

12-16-2005, 09:18 PM

Hi again,John

I'm pleased to hear that your back's feeling better.

"Yes,all my training deadlifts are sumo.I cannot do conventional style without back pain.Though short in stature,I have long legs making conventional style uncomfortable,hence the reason for sumos.I do no other specific lower back work mainly because I find the deadlifts enough.Any more lower back work would put me over the edge."
Sorry John,but I must disagree with you here,as due to the relatively upright position of the back in the starting position of the sumo style,the range of motion in the spinal extensors is much less than with conventional deadlifts.If you're feeling strain in the lower back using sumo technique,then I suspect that you may possibly be raising the hips in lieu of leg drive when seperating the bar from the floor.

John,I would heartily endorse Jeff's suggestion that you incorporate back raises (or prone hyper-extensions,as the Soviets termed them) into your training schedule.It certainly sounds as if you have abdominal work well under control,which is good,but IMHO this needs to be balanced out by some movements for the spinal extensors - unlike any 'pulling' movements,the back raise will accomplish this purpose without involving the hamstrings.Remember that old saying<John: "a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link".

Regards and best wishes
Ron

ms_irreverent

12-17-2005, 12:35 PM

John Prink

12-17-2005, 04:07 PM

True, that's why I use sumo style. My back doesn't hurt at all when I use sumo style. I was just out of the groove and out of position when I pulled the weight. Conventional style deadlifting is just too long of a pull for me and that's why I don't do it. Its how I hurt my back initially years and years ago before I discovered sumo. True that it probably builds a bigger, better back, but I'm not built for it. Just like I'm not built to do narrow stance, Olympic style, high bar squats. I sort of fold up (LOL!!!) while doing them. Its not a matter of flexibility with me - I can still touch my palms to the floor with locked legs - its a matter of body build. I squat wide stance and when I was Olympic lifting made use of the front squat which I excelled at. Love that exercise....just can't do it anymore. Herniated discs in my neck prevent me from doing lots of different exercises....front squats being one of them.

I actually think of pushing my feet thru the floor when pulling heavy deadlifts. This time around I was just out of position and pulled wrong. My fault.....no big deal really.....

I trained today and did box squats really light using 135 for 6 sets of 2 and 185 for 6 sets of 2. I did leg curls, barbell hack squats, toe raises and tried light rack pulls today...managed 185 from right below the knees for sets of 10 just to get some blood down there. I finished up with barbell sidebends, crunches and leg raises......

Hopefully, in another week I can be back to full training again. My back is already better. I have an inversion table as well, which I make full use of.

When I start back deadlifting again, I'll start off with a program I used to do years ago that worked real well for me. I'll do a Louie Simmons timed singles routine whereby I'll start with 65% of 415 and do 15 singles with about 45 seconds to a minute between reps. Every training day thereafter, I bump the weight up 5% and drop the reps a few. Over a period of 6-8 weeks I work up to around 85% and do only about 4 singles with it. This routine has never failed to produce a PR for me so I'm going to give it another go.

My last max was 402 and I think I could have pulled a few more pounds but went conservative because I hadn't competed in 10 years. Next meet the goal is a 430 deadlift at 165. I'm basing my percentages off 415 right now because I had been using 355 for 5 and 365 for 3 reps respectively, and a 415 max is what I figured I'd be able to do.

I'll see how it goes. I'm looking for a local meet in the late winter or spring of 2006....

Cheers,

JP

Old Olympic Lifter

12-18-2005, 05:43 AM

Hi ms_I

"OK,now I'm confused.Didn't he say that he does sumo specifically because it does not cause strain,whereas conventional does?."
Yes,John did say this,but he also said:

" I do no other specific lower back work mainly because I find the deadlifts enough.Any more lower back work would put me over the edge."
The point I was attempting to make was that when the sumo deadlifts are being performed correctly,there is an insufficient range of motion involved to work the lower back.As John indicated in a later post,it was being out of position when pulling a training deadlift which initially caused his recent back strain.

Sorry if I conveyed the wrong impression,as I wasn't intending to suggest that John use conventional deadlifts instead of sumo,only that a SPECIFIC lower back movement like the back raises that Jeffs mentioned might be of value to him in strengthening a potential weak point.

Regards and best wishes
Ron

Old Olympic Lifter

12-19-2005, 11:05 PM

Hi John

The Louie Simmons 'rest pause' routine for deadlifting sounds really great,and it should enable you to obtain some good solid workouts without incurring the dangers of overtraining.I hope that you have some luck in finding a suitable meet.

Regards and best wishes
Ron

John Prink

12-22-2005, 04:48 AM

Deadlift workout today:

60% = 245 for 15 singles at 45 second intervals after warmup of 135 and 205

DB shrugs 95 at 3x10-12

Leg Curls 3x10-12

Barbell Hack squats 3x10

Toe Raisies 3x15

Abs.......

Excellent workout..back to normal...no pain...

BP's in a day or so........

John Prink

12-24-2005, 02:13 PM

Yesterday...BP workout

after warmups 4 sets of 5 with 180.

EZ bar curls 110 for 3x5

Parallel grip bar incline presses 3x8

Seated rows 3x10

DB triceps extensions on a decline bench - 4x8

Abs

John Prink

01-02-2006, 05:46 PM

Deadlift was 12 singles: 6 at 265 and 6 at 270...roughly 65% of 415 after warm-ups.

Hack squats, toe raises, Hise shrugs (for today) and leg curls rounded things out.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
BP workout was 4x4 at 185 after warm-ups.

Wide grip steep seated press - 3x5

Curls 3x10

JM presses 3x10 (I'm liking these)

Seated rows - 3x10

Abs - barbell side bends 1x18 reps, crunches and leg raises

John Prink

01-06-2006, 03:27 PM

Squats 12 sets of 2 followed by assistance
--------------------------

BP day was 4x10,10,9,8 after warmups with 170

I also did as part of my assistance work more of those JM Presses but this time with an EZ curl bar. Conclusion: EZ curl bar good, straight bar bad.

John Prink

01-07-2006, 03:32 PM

Was going to pull deadlifts this morning but shoulders/chest/triceps are still a little sore from the bench press. I'll wait another day and pull tomorrow....

John Prink

01-08-2006, 05:17 PM

Did deadlifts today:

Current max sitting at 415.

Sumo pulls

135x5
205x4
245x3
270x2
290 for 10 singles at 30-40 seconds apart

Incline bench leg curls with heavy ankle weights for sets of 25

barbell hack squats 3x11

toe raises 3x15

shrugs with bar held behind back - 3x15

barbell side bends 1x15

Roman chair situps 1x15 with 25 pound plate

tomorrow BP's.....

Been doing those JM presses. Saw a lot of videos over the past few weeks of this exercise and no two videos are the same....though doing this exercise on a flat bench with an EZ curl bar seems to be very friendly to the elbows, I may go back to using parallel grip DB tricep extesnisons....these seem to feel better.

John Prink

01-11-2006, 05:12 AM

BP

2x8 @ 95
1x5 @ 135
1x4 @ 150
1x3 @ 170
4x3 @ 190

Seated Rows - 4x10

Seated hi incline DB press 2x10

EZ bar curls 3x8

JM presses with EZ bar 3x12 (I'll play with these for a few more weeks to see where they're taking me)

Abs.....

John Prink

01-13-2006, 03:09 PM

Box squats 10x2 @ 250

Leg curls 30,25,25 reps

Barbell Hack squats 3x12 @ 150

Toe Raises - 3x15 @ 260

DB shrugs - lightened these up a bit 75's for 3x15

Ab work - barbell side bends 1x15 @ 85

Roman chair sit ups - 25pound plate for 20 reps

Leg raises 35 reps

ironeagle6

01-13-2006, 03:28 PM

Hmmmmm....box squats - is there anything they can't do?

Good work John!!

John Prink

01-14-2006, 04:48 AM

Hmmmmm....box squats - is there anything they can't do?

Good work John!!

Thanks!

Box squats have definitely improved my deadlift that's for sure....

Cheers,

JP

Old Olympic Lifter

01-15-2006, 05:03 PM

ironeagle6

01-15-2006, 07:31 PM

John Prink

01-16-2006, 03:30 PM

Hi John

I noticed in a recent post that you're handling 250lbs for ten sets of doubles on your box squats - I'm just curious,what percentage of your maximum conventional squat is this. :?: The WSB guys all seem to work on a 50-60% range,if you're doing the same then this means that you would be capable of a 420+lb squat,which is a mighty impressive poundage for a 165lb Masters lifter!!.

Regards and best wishes
Ron

HI Ron,

My best squat ever was 405 lbs, but that was over 10 years ago (I was much younger then). My best most recent squat was probably about 325 with a pair of wraps and a belt on - no suit - and that was done last spring....2005.

I've based the percentage for the box squat off of my deadlift single. I was working toward a 430 pound deadlift so I seem to be within range of what the Westside guys are doing.

Funny though, I haven't really trained my regular back squat very heavy in about a year because I've been concentrating on push/pull meets.

I have been putting a lot of time into the barbell Hack squat so I'm definitely getting plenty of leg work.

One thing I noticed is that when I add weight to the box squat, I tend to stay around 8 sets of 2-3 and as I get comfortable with the weight, I increase the sets to no more than 12 sets of 2.

I read somewhere on line that the Westside protocol of 10-12 sets of 2 for the box squat was a guideline. Their guys are up around 14-18 doubles!!

That's a lot of work to say the least.

I have noticed my hips/glutes and outer thighs are more sore with box squats than with regular squats. When I do regular back squats, I do not feel the movement in the outer thigh area. I tend to feel the squat in the inner thigh area. Weird!

I only get outer thigh stimulation from hack squats and front squats. I would forego the back squat altogether, but its that, and Hack squats which make up my basic leg routine. I could do belt squats as I still have all the equipment to do so, but its a pain in the neck to set up and break down each and everytime I want to use it.

Actually, I'd prefer front squats to anything, but with my neck issues, there's no way I can hold the bar in position on the shoulders, crossed arms or traditional style without massive pain.

So I'm stuck with back squats......funny how deadlifting actually makes my back feel better.....I feel much more powerful training this exercise.

Cheers,

JP

Old Olympic Lifter

01-18-2006, 03:06 AM

Hi John

Thanks for your comprehensive reply,I guess I should have realised that your box squat percentages were based on your best deadlift.

Another question,John,what width stance do you employ when box squatting,and also what box height/s do you use. :?: I experimented with the WSB training systems when I was coaching a small group of powerlifters during the late 1990's,however even though I tried various size boxes I received no carryover benefits to my squat from them.I eventually deduced that this was mainly because I squatted in Olympic style with quite a narrow stance (approx 12-14" between the insides of my heels),and I personally feel that box squats are really designed for wide stance power style squatters.I have at times attempted squatting with a wider (for me,about 20-22") stance,but with my relatively long legs and narrow hips I just cannot generate any drive whatsoever from a below parallel position.

I personally prefer and have gained far greater benefits from doing 'pause' squats,where I pause several inches below parallel for around two seconds,and then drive upwards with as much speed as possible - my best on these is just over 90% of my conventional squat (both done 'raw').

Regards and best wishes
Ron

John Prink

01-18-2006, 04:02 PM

[quote="Old Olympic Lifter"]Hi John

Thanks for your comprehensive reply,I guess I should have realised that your box squat percentages were based on your best deadlift.

Another question,John,what width stance do you employ when box squatting,and also what box height/s do you use. :?: I experimented with the WSB training systems when I was coaching a small group of powerlifters during the late 1990's,however even though I tried various size boxes I received no carryover benefits to my squat from them.I eventually deduced that this was mainly because I squatted in Olympic style with quite a narrow stance (approx 12-14" between the insides of my heels),and I personally feel that box squats are really designed for wide stance power style squatters.I have at times attempted squatting with a wider (for me,about 20-22") stance,but with my relatively long legs and narrow hips I just cannot generate any drive whatsoever from a below parallel position.

I personally prefer and have gained far greater benefits from doing 'pause' squats,where I pause several inches below parallel for around two seconds,and then drive upwards with as much speed as possible - my best on these is just over 90% of my conventional squat (both done 'raw').

Ron,

I only recently started using the box squat. Years ago, when I did Olympic lifting, I of course used the narrow stance high bar Olympic squat, which I believe is better in terms of building muscle. In terms of squatting max weight, for me it wasn't a very good way to squat. I too have long legs and narrow hips despite being short in stature.

I started squatting with a wide stance to take advantage of whatever leverage I did have for the squat. The problem with powe rsquatting is if your quads are not really strong, you might tend to bow your knees in, as I did. I realized early on that I needed to get my hips strong as well. And this is also the reason why I use the barbell Hack squat for extra leg work. Hack squats are helping me build that leg drive I need. I believe the Hack squats and the box squats are the two exercises that are building up my deadlift.

Somewhere along the line, I decided that I needed more hip strength. I use an old wooden end table that's very sturdy. I suppose its roughly 18-20 inches in height. I simply set it up inside the rack.

One thing I noticed with box squats is that I need to use my old weightlifitng shoes with a small heel to squat. I also squat with the same stance I deadlift in....so I'm at a sumo stance within the rack.

When I box squat, I try to use the power of the hips to launch myself off the box (table). The first 3-4 sets are pretty tough, but after that, my body seems to settle in and thrives on the doubles. By the time I get to the tenth set of so, I'm really warmed up. I actually feel like I could go to 15 or more sets. I only rest about 45 seconds between sets once I get going.....so the workout goes very fast in that respect.

Incidently, I noticed from looking at that Olympic weightlifitng site info you sent me, that my squat snatch style (when I did those) was nearly exactly like that of Dave Sheppard. I'm sure your familiar with him of course. I'm surprised I never was able to do better at the squat snatch.....I always felt like I was going to fall forward. I looked at his style and he's leaning way over....

Anyway, so far so good with the box squats. I'm starting to use a few more of Louie Simmons' ideas.....for instance since I've stopped the high incline press, and started bench pressing twice a week, my bench press is climbing. Louie recommends exercises like "band pull aparts"....which is really a fancy name for chest expander pulls.....I started those this morning after my BP work out.

I'll post this morning's workout in another post.

Cheers,

JP

John Prink

01-18-2006, 04:17 PM

1/17/06 - I deadlifted onthis day.

After warming up (135x5,205x4,245x3,275x2) I pulled 310 for 8 singles with 1 minute of rest in between each single.

Leg curls 3 sets of 30

Barbell Hack squats - 3x10 at 155

Toe raises - 3x15 at 260

DB shrugs - lightened up on these a bit to concentrate more on the traps. 3x15 with 75 pounders.

Abs- barbell side bends 1x15 with 90 pounds

Roman chair sit ups 25 pound plate 15 reps, then 10 more without weight.

Next deadlift workout will be in 8-10 days and I'll do 6 singles with 330-335. Then next workout will be 350-355 for 4 singles.

Then I'll try a big pull in February - I'll open with 385, go to 410, and try 430.......

1/18/06 -

Once in awhile I try different exercises to see what I like. I added the tricep extensions from the floor with a parallel grip bar this morning, plus the chest expander stuff. The steel spring set I have offers enough resistance to make the exercises I'm doing challenging. I noticed in the summer of 2005, at my last meet, that the top bencher's were using these and simple rubber tubing and doing lots of reps and different exercises......none o fthose guys seemed to do any military presses yet their shoulders were huge. Besides laterals with DB's they used the cables/rubber tubing and were none the worse for it. They told me they were using the Westside style of training for the bench press.

BP workout - so far so good on these. Shoulders don't hurt and bench seems to go up every week.

95x8
115x8
135x5
150x3
170x2
185 for four sets of 5 - easy with lots of drive.

Seated rows - 225 at 3 sets of 10

Triceps extensions on the floor with my parallel grip bar - 3 sets of 10...this is one of those Louie Simmon's exercises....wasn't sure if I was going to like these. Initially I wasn't feeling anything in the triceps, but after the tenth rep when I got up I felt it in the triceps. 2 more sets and my triceps were burnt out. These are a keeper........I use small plates on the bar. The muscles are totally relaxed when you start the movement.

Chest expander work - pull aparts @ 2x15 for now.....these really worked more shoulder muslce than I expected. I'll increase the sets up to at least 4 and try to add another spring when possible. The goal here is the whole spring set which is 5 springs....

EZ bar curls - 3x10.....I'm sort of alternating the low and high reps from workout to workout.

Abs....

John Prink

01-22-2006, 05:06 AM

Friday 1/20 Squat workout

My hips have been sore lately so I decided to just go with a 5x5 protocol today on squats.

135x5
185x5
225 at 3x5

Deep, full squats......no hip pain

Leg curls - Since my leg curl machine is down - broken weld - I'm using leg weighs and lots of reps on an incline bench propped up on a 4x4.....I'm trying to get 100 reps a session.....with most sets being 25-35 reps

Hack squats -160 3x10

Toe raises 265 3x15

Hise shrugs 185 3x15 nice and slow

Abs

Bench workout on Sunday......

ironeagle6

01-22-2006, 08:33 AM

Friday 1/20 Squat workout

My hips have been sore lately so I decided to just go with a 5x5 protocol today on squats.

John:

great minds think alike....I like to switch to the old 5 x 5 when I'm feeling out of sorts as well.

It's like coming home....

John Prink

01-23-2006, 02:52 AM

I like to switch to the old 5 x 5 when I'm feeling out of sorts as well.

It's like coming home....[/quote]

The 5x5 is a great routine isn't it?

JP

John Prink

01-23-2006, 03:03 AM

BP today....

The way my routine is laid out I was doing a light day followed by a heavy day on the bench. As it turned out, the light day was catching up to the heavy day.

So I backed off the light day weight a bit.

BP:

95x8
115x8
135x5
150x5
160 4 sets 12,12,10,10 All sets with competition grip - just outside the rings.

I found the key to benching for me was to grip the bar so that when its on my chest, my forearms are perpendicular to the ground. I bench to the upper chest as well.....shoulders are doing great.

Curls 5x5

Handstand Pushups - I am back doing these again on push up handles - 3x10. I'll increase a set every workout....goal is to get at least 7-8 sets of 10 minimum.

Seated rows - 225 3x8 with a narrow grip

Decline triceps extensions using my parallel grip barbell 3x10....this bar is really sort of unweidly.....it weighs 50 pounds alone and is the length of a standard Olympic bar. When I bought it a couple of years ago, it was sold as a "triceps bar".....I always thought it wa stoo big to do extensions with but after playing with it for the last couple of workouts, its very balanced and comfortable to use.

Abs.....

Done.

Next workout is deadlifts.....singles with 330-335.....

John Prink

01-25-2006, 03:33 AM

DL workout

135x5
205x4
245x3
280x2
310x2
330x 3 singles followed by 335 for 3 singles

135x10 standing on 45's

wide grip stiff leg DL 135x10 from floor - don't like the feel of these

narrow grip stiff leg DL 135x10 from blocks - don't like feel of these

narrow grip stiff legg DL 135x10 from blocks - eh! these were OK

Substituted the stiff leg variety for leg curls. I will either try lunging or go back to leg curls with leg weights next leg workout.

Hack squat - 160 3x10

Toe raises - 265 3x15

Shrugs - 75lb DB for 3x15

Abs

Oh and the parallel grip barbell extensions ended up hurting my neck for some odd reason. Strange indeed.

As you can see I've been experimenting with different exercises. Something I do from time to time to see what I can add back to my exercise pool.....I'll continue with extensions but either do them with DB's or an EZ bar.....that parallel grip bar was billed as a triceps bar but I think it maybe a bit too big for....or I'm to small...whichever...point is the bar was uncomfortable for the movement it was designed to be used for.

John Prink

01-27-2006, 04:36 PM

BP was 4x4 at 190 after several warmups.....max is up hovering around 230-235 which is 20 pounds more than I did over last summer.....so there's progress.

Seated rows - 225 for 4x10 seemes to really target the rear delts to and this exercise in general is really helping my bench overall.

Triceps work as follows:

tried a giant set of parallel grip bar extensions, followed by extensions to the top of the head, followed by CGBP, all with the same bar and followed those with pushups on my rings, feet elevated. I guess the total reps was somewhere around 25-35.....I did this twice through and was burned out.

I did a new exercise today: "L Laterals"....basically DB laterals, but you start with the DB's in thumbs up hammer curl position with palms facing. Found this variation on abcbodybuilding.com and it looked interesting. Seemed to worked the shoulders thoroughly and increase blood flow into the rotator cuff. These are a keeper. 3 sets of 12. I'll add weight next workout.

Curls 5x5

Abs.....

Not sure about the triceps work....still playing around with different ideas though I do like combining the extensions with the pushups.....not sure if I want to add that much extra shoulder/chest to the mix. I really felt this giant set in my entire upper body and really was just looking for extra triceps work. I may forego a couple of the movements next workout and do some extensions with an EZ curl bar from the floor (I liked the floor extensions) and superset with the pushups so I don't do too much.

I'm really feeling the giant sets todays.....arms are sore in a good way so I'll see where I'm at in a few days when my arms calm down a bit.

JP

Old Olympic Lifter

01-29-2006, 09:39 PM

Hi John

"BP was 4x4 at 190 after several warmups.....max is up hovering around 230-235 which is twenty pounds more than I did over last summer,so there's progress."
Congratulations John,I'm pleased to hear that you're showing such a good improvement in your bench pressing poundages :) - it looks as if the mixture of assistance exercises is paying off really well for you.
BTW,what date have you set for your forthcoming deadlift trial,John :?: - that can't be too far away now

Regards and best wishes
Ron

John Prink

01-30-2006, 03:47 AM

HI Ron. Thanks....the bench pressing poundages are coming up aren't they. Slow but sure. Now that I laid off heavy military style or incline pressing the bench is moving up. I'm staying with those L - Laterals I started doing as those have made my rotator cuffs feel great. Rows and extra triceps work are paying off. Rotating heavy (lower reps) and light (higher reps) training days has mad e tremendous difference in my bench training too.

As far as the deadlift is concerned, what I usually do is follow Louie Simmons' recommendations and never go above 85% in training percentages. So, with that in mind, my next deadlift workout will be 4 singles at 85% which translates to 352 pounds. So here I'll probably split it up and do just two singles each with 350 and 355. I'll have my suit bottom and belt on and see how that goes.

The following week - more like 10-12 days after the above workout - I'll pull the heavy "gym" lift. I talked to a buddy of mine tonight and he agreed to come by the "gym" (my garage) and video tape it. I hope to get it on the computer for all to see.

So a couple of more weeks and I should be ready to pull the big one.

I'll probable take a 350-375 opener, 405-410 on a second lift and try the 425-430 on the final pull. I've allowed myself 4 total pulls....I figure I'll just hit a few warmups, suit up and go for it.

Definitely the Hack squats, box squats and hamstring work has helped my deadlift.

JP

John Prink

02-02-2006, 03:45 PM

Deadlift -

135x5
205x4
245x3
295x2
335x2
350 two singles
355 two singles
185x10 standing on 45's

Glute Ham raises - 5x10

Hack squats - 165 3x8

Toe raises - 265 3x15

Hise shrugs - 185 2x20

Abs

Next DL workout will try heavier

Gogiants

02-02-2006, 10:46 PM

John-- Is this a deadlift only competition? Or is it a full meet where you can only compete in one lift if you want? I'm just curious about this, since I really know little about competitions.

When and where is this competition? What organization?

If I ever compete in something and it is not a OL meet, I'd probably make it a DL competition.

Good luck,
Jack

John Prink

02-03-2006, 05:38 AM

HI Jack,

It's a push/pull meet so the BP is included. I compete mainly in law enforcement/fire meets. These meets used to be held under strict USPF rules, though they weren't sanctioned and thus no card was needed to compete. That was at a time when they were full power meets. Somewhere along the line, and for reasons unknown to me, the squat was dropped from these competitions and they became push/pull only.

The rules are stricter now in that, no wraps, or bench shirts are allowed. The only equipment allowed is a belt and a wrestling singlet or non supportive suit, though I wear my squat suit for the meet and it passed inspection. I wear wrestling shoes to deadlift in too. We are required to wear knee high white socks to deadlift in too or else we cannot compete. Something about bloody shins and barbells prompted that rule.

The USPF rules are not being used specifically, but the rules we use are similiar: the bar must be motionless on the chest before the press signal is given, you can get called for uneven extension, things like that. With the deadlift there'll be no "hitching".

There is also a bench only meet, but since I like competing in the deadlift as well I do the push/pull meets. This particular meet is open to public viewing (its in San Diego this year at the end of June), but one needs to be either fire or law enforcement personnel (me) to compete.

I plan on pulling heavy my next DL workout to see where I'm at. I'll lighten the load a bit and concentrate on 5's and 3's for awhile too before getting back into a heavy cycle.

Bench is pretty much just moving along slowly, but its moving. I have no plan to try anything really heavy anytime soon, due to the fact that I train alone, and though I train inside a power rack, I still like to have at least someone around to spot me on really heavy attempts. Plus, my shoulders are feeling really good right now and I don't want to jack anything up so I'm playing it safe with the BP.......

Cheers,

JP

Old Olympic Lifter

02-04-2006, 03:19 AM

John Prink

02-04-2006, 05:15 AM

Hi John

The rules enforced in your law enforcement/fire push/pull contests sound very similar to those of the IPF,except of course for the omission of any supportive attire.I was interested to hear that you use your squat suit on the deadlift,John - I've heard of lifters here in NZ who find that a suit helps keep their form much tighter when pulling in sumo style.Do you wear it in training as well :?: - if not,then how much extra poundage do you figure it gives you for a max single :?:
Good luck with your heavy pull next week,John

Regards and best wishes
Ron

HI Ron,

I've tried wearing a wrestling singlet to deadlift in too, but didn't feel as secure, so I wear my squat suit to deadlift in. I do find it keeps me very tight and secure while competing. I mainly wear it to prevent injury to the groin/lower back area which I seem prone too, especially since I use the sumo stance.

I do wear it in training when I start to exceed 80+% weights, but I'm not sure how much the suit gives me on a max.....maybe as much as 25-30 pounds. I've pulled 380 without a suit and just a belt and my all time best was 440 at home with a suit and belt, but that was many years ago.

I've noticed that as long as I can break the bar from the floor, I have no trouble with lockout once the bar gets to shin level. I think the suit helps me with that initial pull from the floor. After that, I have no problem locking out.

JP

John Prink

02-04-2006, 05:25 AM

After weeks of experimenting with different triceps exercises I think I found my niche.

Today was a bench press workout day and I managed 4x3 with 195 after warmups.

I did EZ bar curls and made them interesting today. I've been stuck at 110 for awhile and decided to do the following: 95x5,100x5,105x5,110x5,115x3 felt great.

triceps was: lying, flat bench triceps extensions with a parallel grip bar, with the bar resting on pins in my power rack at the lowest position. The size and shape of the bar forced me to keep my elbows back further than I would normally do. The effect was a great triceps stretch. The bar weighs 50 pounds on its own so I did the first set with that for 15 reps, followed by two sets of 12 and 10 respectively, with 60 pounds.

L laterals - 3 quick sets of 12 with these. These are fun. Great pump and they do not hurt my shoulders.

Seated rows - 230 for 3x10

Abs.....

I may try playing with shoulder exercises in the next week or so now that I have my triceps exercise picked out. I may still try to add in upright rows with a shoulder width grip and see how they go.

John Prink

02-06-2006, 04:21 PM

Squat day:

135x10
185x5
225 12 sets of 2 box squats.....lightened the load a little

Barbell Hack squats - 165 3 sets of 10

Glute-Ham raises - 4x10

Toe Raises -3x15 at 265

DB shrugs - 80's 18,15,12 reps

Side bends with an Olympic bar - 80x12 reps

Roman chair situps - 15 reps with a 25 pound plate

Next workout is bench press.....

JP

Tom

02-06-2006, 04:26 PM

Is there any trick to doing hack squats? I've never been able to get the hang of these. I think they'll be a good quad assistance exercise.

John Prink

02-06-2006, 04:49 PM

Is there any trick to doing hack squats? I've never been able to get the hang of these. I think they'll be a good quad assistance exercise.

Hi TOm,

No....no tricks. I load an Olympic bar with 25 pound plates. I feel this is necessary because as you squat down it'll give you a long range of motion. That way the plates do not hit the floor before you've squatted all the way down.

I set the bar on pins in my power rack at about hip height. I simply walk into the rack, grab the bar from behind so my hands are directly next to my thighs and step back.

I wear my Olympic lifting shoes so my heels are elvated and my arches are supported. Also if you're going to elevate your heels, I recommend taking a small piece of plywood and propping it up on some 10 pound plates. Stand on that so that your entire foot is elevated rather than just your heels. It'll keep your arches from aching and provide more stability to push from.

Anyway, once I have the bar in place, I squat down as low as comfortable and rise back up. I make sure my toes are pointed forward and I keep my feet rather close together....probably no more than 2-3 inches apart.

The effect is an excellent, forgotten barbell exercise that any trainee can safely do and lots of meat to their thighs with. It builds down by the knee area on the outside of the thigh.

I have an old 40 pound Olympic bar that is rather thick in the middels. I load two 25 pound plates each for a 140 pound bar. I simply add smaller plates as needed. The small plates, heels elevated and a little flexibility are critical but this exercise produces.

It was mainly an assistance exercise for my deadlift but I like them so much I do them every time I train lower body....which is once every 4-5 days. On the days that I deadlift, I do them after the DL for additional leg work. On the days I box squat, I do them immediately after them and try to do as many reps as possible.

I prefer higher reps with this exercise.....I don't treat it as a power movement. I use it more as a muscle building movement.

Cheers,

JP

Tom

02-06-2006, 06:08 PM

John Prink

02-08-2006, 04:27 PM

Cool. I'll give that a go sometime soon. I'm taking a crack at doing Westside using the suggestions for raw lifters in Jim Wendler's articles, and I'm looking around for quadriceps-oriented exercises.

I have to admit that when I first started using some of Louies ideas way back when (first read about them in a Powerlifting USA mag over 10 years ago) I was skeptical. But after careful application of his techniques I believe there is merit to them. I use some but not all of the techniques like speed benching, and different triceps exercies.

I have to admit that after backing off shoulder work and applying only specific exercises for the rotator cuff, by bench has gone up. I basically use his technique for triceps work....floor extensions and rack extensions, box squats for thighs, singles for deadlifting, lots of ab work for a strong core.

I'm not sure about his ideas for benching though....in my case anyway they over train me and get me nowhere. The routine I'm on now I actually got off the internet and seemed like a workable routine for someone who works full time.

The barbell Hack squats were something I did as a kid in my basement gym. At the time, I didn't have stands or a rack or the where with all to go to a gym....there weren't any local gyms to train in.....anyway I used the Hack squat with much success. I also cleaned a barbell from he floor and did front squats and eventually worked my way into Olympic lifting......

As you areaware, one doesn't neccessarily need the back squat to build themselves up....it helps....but work with what you got....

JP

Tom

02-08-2006, 06:44 PM

Old Olympic Lifter

02-08-2006, 07:45 PM

Hi John

"I've tried wearing a wrestling singlet to deadlift in too,but didn't feel as secure,so I wear my squat suit to deadlift in. I do find it keeps me very tight and secure while competing.I mainly wear it to prevent injury to the groin/lower back area which I seem prone too,especially since I use the sumo stance.I do wear it in training when I start to exceed 80+% weights,but I'm not sure how much the suit gives me on a max.....maybe as much as twenty-five to thirty pounds.I've pulled 380 without a suit and just a belt and my all time best was 440 at home with a suit and belt,but that was many years ago.I've noticed that as long as I can break the bar from the floor,I have no trouble with lockout once the bar gets to shin level.I think the suit helps me with that initial pull from the floor.After that,I have no problem locking out."
I know of several good sumo stylists here in New Zealand who always wear a squat suit when deadlifting in competition,to help maintain good tight form and minimise the possibilities of any injuries ocurring - some claim it can add as much as 10% to their max poundage.A polished sumo technician is great to watch in action,they 'break' the bar from the floor without raising the hips or losing their back angle,and the bar just 'flows' close and straight to completion.
All the best for your 'big pull',John

Regards and best wishes
Ron

John Prink

02-09-2006, 05:07 AM

Thanks Ron...

I'll probably try to max on Saturday morning.....

JP

John Prink

02-09-2006, 05:17 AM

Thanks for the insights, John. I don't recall running into overtraining issues with the bench, but I didn't usually use chains or bands (except for a short while, when I absolutely _did_ feel overtrained). But then you're quite a bit stronger than I am (especially on a pound-for-pound basis), which would tend to make that sort of thing worse.

Thanks Tom.....

One thing I've noticed about my training lately is that as I've gotten older I need a little more volume, and since my metabolism has slowed a bit, the extra volume is welcome. Its helping with keeping my bodyweight down. I'm adding size to this older body and poundage to my lifts.

Overtraining was something I suffered thru all the time and for many years, when I was younger, until I finally figured out the right amount of volume. As long as I stick to one exercise per bodypart, so things don't get too confusing, I'm fine. It's when I really mix things up that my training gets muddy and stop gaining.

I never tried bands or chains but a few guys at work have and report that it helps with their lifts. Not sure if I'd try that or not....seems like a pain to set up and break down.

JP

Tom

02-09-2006, 07:42 AM

I never tried bands or chains but a few guys at work have and report that it helps with their lifts. Not sure if I'd try that or not....seems like a pain to set up and break down.

Yeah, that's the _other_ drawback. Plus, the bands are made of really stinky rubber; your hands smell like rubber all day. Yeech!

Old Olympic Lifter

02-11-2006, 04:06 AM

Hi John

"Thanks Ron,I'll probably try to max on Saturday morning."
Best wishes for a PB deadlift today,John

Regards
Ron

John Prink

02-11-2006, 04:43 AM

Hi John

"Thanks Ron,I'll probably try to max on Saturday morning."
Best wishes for a PB deadlift today,John

Regards
Ron

Thanks Ron.........

I'm all set. Ready for the big pull. My buddy is coming over this morning to train with me.

I'll let you know how it turns out.....

JP

John Prink

02-12-2006, 06:04 AM

Well my buddy was sick with bronchitis so he never came by......and I didn't make the 430 as expected anyway....it was just welded to the floor despite my best efforts at pulling.....oh well.....

Note to self......box squats didn't help.....need to do more hamstring work.....will work more squats for higher reps for more leg strength..........and will work the deadlift in 3 sections; bar on floor, bar on plates and me standing on plates......better luck next time.

I'll start 5's and 3's next week at reduced weight.....come to think of it, when I pulled my PR last July, I was using 3's and 5's by feel and not doing timed singles..........so I may have to revisit the singles idea.

JP

Old Olympic Lifter

02-12-2006, 09:37 PM

Hi John

"Well my buddy was sick with bronchitis so he never came by,and I didn't make the 430 as expected anyway,it was just welded to the floor despite my best efforts at pulling,oh well."
Sorry to hear that you missed out on your big deadlift,John :( - a pity that your buddy was unable to help out.The deadlift is,IMHO,a very pschycological lift and even just having someone there to observe could have made all the difference between success and failure.

"I'll start fives and threes next week at reduced weight,come to think of it,when I pulled my PR last July,I was using threes and fives by feel and not doing timed singles,so I may have to revisit the singles idea."
John,as I recently mentioned to Jack,I feel that fives and threes are definitely necessary to build a good solid base of strength.I think that six to eight weeks is probably far too long to follow a 'singles' routine on deadlifts,personally I would only use them for a short peaking cycle of two or maybe three weeks to accustom the mind and body to the 'skill' of performing singles prior to 'maxing out'.

Regards and best wishes
Ron

John Prink

02-12-2006, 11:13 PM

HI Ron,

I agree. The workout wasn't a total loss. I managed to work some sumo deadlifts while standing on plates and did lots of hamstring work. I think Louie Simmons said it best when he said "everything works, but nothing works forever." I now believe this is so true.

Funny how a few weeks prior I was doing sets of 5 with 355 with just a loose belt. I expected that I would be able to pull at least the 430.....mind you I haven't even thought of pulling that much in over 12+ years.....so I don't feel bad about it.

I benched this afternoon and can report that lift is coming along fine. I've been struggling with the JM presses as of late. I watched lots and lots of videos on the lift and after careful analysis decided to give it another go.

I used one of my EZ curl bars and held the bar in the widest portion of the bends in the bar. I brought the bar down to my upper chest and held it just above my chest. I ever so slightly moved the bar toward my face, similiar in fashion to a bent arm pullover and press, and did an extension to completion. It appears to me that htis lift is just nothing more than a shortened version of the the pullover and press - a lift I excel at.

I can report that bringing the bar down to the bottom position really stretches the triceps and especially while holding the bar in a motionless position above the chest really places a lot of stimulation on the triceps. The extension portion of the lift really worked the triceps to failure. Now that I've dropped heavy shoulder work and am concentrating on heavy triceps work, my bench is moving along fine.

I experimented with different weights, all within 20 pounds of each other to get the right feel, and I ended up doing 5 sets of 8-12 reps. I think this exercise has definite value now that I've figured it out. What seems to be really good about it is that there is no stress on my shoulders and no stimulation of the chest. Its pure triceps power.....so anyway, it looks like I'll give those a go for awhile.

Next week I start deadlifting again.....I'm thinking of adapting my bench workout to my deadlift.....basically I would do a week each of 4x5, 4x4, 4x3, then go back to to 4x5...etc. I would add about 10 - 20 pounds a workout. I would eliminate the light day, like I do for bench and just work with that 'til I'm ready to peak for the San Diego meet in June of this year. I figure I'll I'll keep at the current workout until at least mid April or so. That should give me plenty of time to get reay for the June meet.

Cheers,

JP

Old Olympic Lifter

02-14-2006, 04:04 AM

Hi John

"I've been struggling with the JM presses as of late.I watched lots and lots of videos on the lift and after careful analysis decided to give it another go.I used one of my EZ curl bars and held the bar in the widest portion of the bends in the bar.I brought the bar down to my upper chest and held it just above my chest.I ever so slightly moved the bar toward my face,similiar in fashion to a bent arm pullover and press,and did an extension to completion.It appears to me that this lift is just nothing more than a shortened version of the the pullover and press - a lift I excel at.I can report that bringing the bar down to the bottom position really stretches the triceps and especially while holding the bar in a motionless position above the chest really places a lot of stimulation on the triceps.The extension portion of the lift really worked the triceps to failure. I think this exercise has definite value now that I've figured it out."
I'm pleased to hear that you've finally found a satisfactory method of performing these.I don't personally have access to an EZ curl bar,but I can imagine that they would isolate the triceps effectively,while removing much of the stress placed on the elbow joints when using a straight bar.Your planned repetition scheme of 8's to 12's sounds good to me,John - I've never received much value myself from doing 'isolation' type exercises in sets of fives or less.Good luck with your benching :)

Regards and best wishes
Ron

John Prink

02-15-2006, 05:19 AM

Squat day,

After the deadlift workout this weekend I was fried so I went ahead and trained squats for 3x15 at a ligt 185. Did 5x15 on leg curls, 3 sets of Hack squats, 3 sets of calf raises, 3 sets of DB shrugs and lot of ab work.....

Thursday will be a bench workout.....

John Prink

02-18-2006, 04:24 PM

Light BP day -

4x12,11,10,10 with 165

JM presses - 4x10

Wide grip straight bar curls 3x8

L laterals - 2x8 with heavy DB's

Seated rows - 2 triple drop sets

Abs

Will most likely change over to HSPU's again and drop the L laterals

JP

John Prink

02-21-2006, 02:01 PM

DL - Sumo

135x8, 185x8, 205x5, 225x5, 245x5, 265x5, 275x5, 285x5, 305x3

185x8 reps 2sets standing on 45's

Hack squats 3x12

GM's 3x15 (leg curl machine broke. Buddy is re-welding pieces. 'Til then, GM's are on the schedule)

Toe raises 3x15

DB shrugs - 2x20

Abs

John Prink

02-25-2006, 12:50 AM

Thought I'd start tossing in my squat workouts too.

An observation:

I was using the box squat to increase my deadlift. I read that years ago (50's and 60's) when powerlifting was in its infancy, many lifters used the box squat to increase their squat, not their deadlift. The fact that the box squat may have helped their deadlift was an added bonus, but it was primarily used to increase their squats.

Fast forward to the 80's and 90's and Louie and his crew in Ohio are using the box squat because they claim it trains the deadlift. I agree it trains the deadlift muscles.........but its not a substitute for deadlifting in my opinion, as he would have trainees believe.

I was having hip pain from the box squat and may have trained it too heavy, I don't know. I do know that the trainees from 40 and 50 years ago used higher reps on this movement than Louie advocates....and there was no shortage of strong squatters back then. So I may revisit the movement at some point, I'm not sure. I did notice that doing the box squat, did not increase my squat nor my deadlift.

That said, I embarked on an old powerlifting squat routine, that I had much success with years ago. Its a routine I found in an old weightlifting book I own from the 60's written by then British Weightlifting coach George Kirkley.

I did the following:

135x10
225x 2 sets of 6
245x 2 sets of 5
265x 2 sets of 4
285x6 - 1/4 squats for hip power
315x5 - 1/4 squats for hip power

I followed with barbell good mornings for 3x10

Barbell Hack squats for 3x6 with 170....felt heavy but solid

Toe raises 3x15

and DB shrugs fopr 3x15

Abs.....

Sunday will be BP work

Tom

02-25-2006, 10:44 AM

A couple comments:
1) It seems that the Westside template now includes speed deadlifts on DE squat day, and in general they seem to be devoting more interest to it than they did a couple years ago when I took my first run at it.

2) I got sore hips from box squatting as well. Actually, I think they were sore because I was squatting so wide. Without the support of a suit, it's pretty stressful on the hips. Nowadays I've taken my stance in substantially.

Old Olympic Lifter

02-26-2006, 12:39 AM

Hi John

"I was having hip pain from the box squat and may have trained it too heavy,I don't know.I do know that the trainees from forty and fifty years ago used higher reps on this movement than Louie advocates,and there was no shortage of strong squatters back then.So I may revisit the movement at some point,I'm not sure.I did notice that doing the box squat did not increase my squat nor my deadlift."
To the best of my knowledge,Bill West from Culver City in California was the 'innovator' of box squats back in the 1960's and George Frenn of hammer throwing fame was one of it's strongest advocates.The box squats they did back then were apparently quite different to those now used by the WSB crew - they were more of an 'overload' movement performed in 'touch and go' fashion to a bench or box several inches higher than parallel,and the stance used was not much wider than the conventional stance used by most Olympic lifters.I believe that Frenn eventually accomplished ten reps with a poundage virtually equal to his 1RM on the power squat :!:.

From what I've read of their training methods,most of the box squats peformed by the WSB trainees are done to a box set about an inch below parallel,using an exceptionally wide stance to assist their power squatting.For deadlifting purposes they use much lower boxes,as low as only six inches according to an old article by Louie Simmons that I read!.Like yourself,I never received any transfer value to either my squat or deadlift from their use.

BTW,I agree wholeheartedly with Tom's observations about the strain on the hips induced by these excessively wide stances.I have a very narrow hip structure with relatively long legs and I find that anything wider than even about 18" between the insides of the heels causes me hip problems.Judging by their photos,it looks to me as if many of the WSB guys are squatting at least DOUBLE this width - goodness knows how they can 'break' parallel 'raw',let alone with all the restrictive attire that they use :?: .

Regards and best wishes
Ron

John Prink

02-26-2006, 06:20 PM

Ron & Tom,

Right about the Culver City crew, George Frenn and the box squats. I always thought the WSB crew used an unusually wide stance too. But, then it occurred to me that these are some pretty big guys (over 200 lbs+) and their wide stances in the box squat I couldn't even begin to emulate. Plus they supposedly squat wearing flat soled sneakers. I wear Olympic lifting shoes when I squat and I'm certain that changes things too. I cannot squat in flat soled shoes. It feels weird to me.

Ron, I too have narrow hips and long legs despite being only 5'6". Wide stance squatting has always been the only way I can truly power squat heavy weights. If I take a close stance and attempt to squat I sort of "fold up"....LOL!! and cannot get into position properly. Though, narrow stance squats do allow me to squat fairly deep as long as I don't try to squat to much weight.

Body mechanics is why I think I excelled at front squats (cannot do those without pain to my neck now), belt squats and now Hack squats. My body is in a more upright position. Hack squats have really powered up my deadlift. For me this is exercise is a must in my routine to have a big deadlift.

I agree with some of Louies theories on training.....he does put out some top powerlifters who use his methods. I take some of his ideas and incorporate them into my own training.

The pain I experienced in the hip socket was due to heavy weight box squats. I noticed it while rising out of the squat off the box. Any other time though, my hips don't hurt....only when I squat to the box.

I figured it wasn't worth it so I dropped them. The thing I noticed about box squats is that they didn't help my squat or my deadlift this time around.

I'm still searching for an appropriate deadlift routine right now. I'm sort of hitting the 5's and 3's for now with no real goal in mind other than to increase the deadlift whenever possible.

On another note I trained BP today as follows:

Bench Press - light day

95x8
115x8
135x5
150x5
170x10,10,8,8 - comp. grip to upper chest

JM presses - 4x10 70 - these are getting easier

Seated rows - 225x 3x8 with a bench grip

L- laterals - 20x 3x12,10,10

Wide grip straight bar curls - 4x8 with an 80 pound bar

Side bends with Olympic bar - 80 at 15 each side

Leg raises 50 reps

Next bench day will be 4 sets of 3 with 200 after warmups....

Deadlift is Tuesday

Cheers,

JP

John Prink

02-28-2006, 05:41 PM

Deadlift - Sumo

135x10
205x5
245x3
260x1
275x 4 sets of 5 = 64% of 430 (easy, felt like 10 reps per set could've been done)

50% of 430 - 215 for 3 sets of 3 standing on 45 lb plates

Leg curls on incline bench 3x30, 30, 25

Barbell Hack squats - 170 3x7

Calf raise - 270 3x15

Shrug with DB's 85 for 20 reps

Abs

Bench on Thursday

JeffS

03-01-2006, 11:14 AM

John, are your 3x3 plate deads done conventionally?

Rickey Crain has always recommended that sumo deadlifters followup their sumo pulls with a few sets of conventional plate deads for the back work.

John Prink

03-04-2006, 09:09 AM

John, are your 3x3 plate deads done conventionally?

Rickey Crain has always recommended that sumo deadlifters followup their sumo pulls with a few sets of conventional plate deads for the back work.

Actually Jeff, no they're done all sumo style, but that's a good point. I'll have to try that......

JP

John Prink

03-04-2006, 09:12 AM

THU....BP day

200 for 4x3 after warmups

EZ bar curls 5x5
JM presses for 5 sets of 10
Seated rows 3x10
ABS

Old Olympic Lifter

03-06-2006, 10:44 PM

Hi John

(by Tom):
"John,are your 3x3 plate deads done conventionally?.Rickey Crain has always recommended that sumo deadlifters follow up their sumo pulls with a few sets of conventional plate deads for the back work"
Good advice from Tom.The lower back is often the 'weak link' for sumo deadlifters - apparently the (IMO) greatest ever sumo deadlifter,Ed Coan,often incorporated conventional style deadlifts in his workouts,both off plates and from the floor.

BTW John,nice work on your benches - triples with 200,way to go :)

Regards and best wishes
Ron

John Prink

03-07-2006, 03:51 AM

Thanks Ron........

Now that contest time is approaching (end of June) I'm planning on my bench and deadlift routines.

I'm still playing around with different triceps exercies.....the JM presses are working pretty good as are anything in a decline position. I often wonder if I'd benefit from board work, or more floor work.

Regular rack work for the bench press, such as lockouts and bottom position presses, tend to make my shoulders very sore....its very odd indeed. Yet heavy floor presses don't hurt my shoulders at all......

JP

JeffS

03-07-2006, 04:28 PM

John Prink

03-07-2006, 04:55 PM

Re: Tricep assistance, I've always found close grip benches to have the best carryover to regular bench.

Whenever my close grip strength is going up, my regular bench does also.
I do about three sets of six after regular bench with about 80-85% of the days workset weight.

Regarding board work, if you are competing raw, you probably won't get much benefit on anything higher than a two board or one board. You can get strong on the three, four or five board press but will probably stick off the chest without a bench shirt.

Main benefit of floor presses is to take the legs and arch out of the bench. If you're not using a lot of leg in your bench or a lot of arch, again probably not a huge benefit from this assistance lift.

HI Jeff,

Thanks for the info.

I do compete raw and do not use an arch. Years ago I did use an arch, but since injuring my neck in 1998 (bad discs) arching hurts, so I bench flat back with my feet on 25 pound plates. In competition we use the wooden blocks of course.

Would one or two boards be adaquate for triceps strength? I seem to stick at about four to five inches off the chest. I have noticed that as long as I do direct triceps work, like extensions, my bench goes up. I tend to thrive on higher reps for triceps work - more like 10-15 - otherwise I don't feel anything.

I've noticed close grips can work for me as long as I keep my elbows under the bar. If my elbows flare out while doing CGBP's its all over. I tend to drive more with my chest and shoulders and thus gain no benefit from the CGBP.

Which brings me to the JM presses. I read about them years ago when Louie and his disciples were doing them....and of course when JM himself was doing them. I thought they were another crazy Westside exercise.....after all people like big Jim Williams and Pat Casey were benching lots of weight 30-50 years ago before all this crazy Westside stuff surfaced, right?....LOL!!

Then I tried them and once I got the movement down, I really felt this exercise all over the tricep. I have noticed that I'm able to get thru the sticking point on the bench press easier, after using this exercise, but I'm always on the hunt for something new.

Interesting take on the board pressing.....I agree with you. I never thought of that before. I guess you do have to consider the fact that Louie's guys are shirted and maybe (most likely) "enhanced".....

Thanks for the info Jeff.....appreciate it.

Cheers,

JP

John Prink

03-13-2006, 04:53 PM

Been away for a few days.....

Started squatting heavy again. No more box squats.....found an old squatting program I used years ago in an old, old weight training book I have written in the early 60's...

The squat workout went as follows:

135x10
230x 6,6
250x 5,5
270x 4,4
290x6
320x5

Took advantage of loaded barbell and did:

Calf raises - 3x15 at 270

Hise Shrugs - 3x15 at 185 for some reason my squat always goes up when I do this exercise.

Barbell Hack squats - lightened up on these a bit to get more muscle action....110 at 3x10

Leg curls with 10 pound leg weights - just until my leg curl/extension machine is repaired.....did 75 reps straight thru.....very tough

Side bend with barbell, Roman chair situps and leg raises

Bench press will be tomorrow....

JP

Old Olympic Lifter

03-13-2006, 07:58 PM

John Prink

03-13-2006, 08:23 PM

Hi John

Impressive training on those back squats - 320x5,that's getting real close to DOUBLE bodyweight.I have a feeling that these will be of more help to your deadlifts than the box squats were.Keep up the good work,John :) .

Regards and best wishes
Ron

HI Ron,

Thanks....my squat and deadlift seem to jump up to heavy weights very fast and level off a bit......the 320 for 5 was done with only a belt on....no wraps. I'm sore today.....feels good though.

Bodyweight is up to about 170....I need to drop a little weight to make the 165's again in June....

I agree about the squats. A guy I lifted with in the early 1980's (while I was in the military) told me power training was really pretty simple and that most people make it more difficult than it needs to be. He said the squat will take care of the deadlift and the deadlift will take care of the squat. Sounds very simplistic but there's definitely something to it.

I realized he was onto something when I saw him doing rack pulls with weights in the 500's....squats from the rack at over 500 in training for sets of 5. He weighed about 200 or so.....the guy kind of reminded me of how Anthony Ditillo always talked about his training part Dezso Ban.......this guy used basic simple, movements and multiple sets. When he walked in the gym we had on base, pretty much everyone left (except me) as they knew he needed all the plates...LOL!!!

JP

Bobcat

03-13-2006, 09:09 PM

John Prink

03-14-2006, 02:00 PM

the squat will take care of the deadlift and the deadlift will take care of the squat. Sounds very simplistic but there's definitely something to it.

Except for the grip, I've always found this to be so.

Never had a problem with that myself.....guess I'm just lucky there. I use barbell Hack squats and barbell side bends and noticed that my grip seemed to get stronger using those exercises....

Cheers,

JP

Gogiants

03-19-2006, 06:00 PM

Hi John,

You haven't updated your log recently, how is your training going?

Jack

John Prink

03-20-2006, 03:48 AM

Hi John,

You haven't updated your log recently, how is your training going?

Jack

Hi Jack.....

I'm doing good. Just been working a lot lately. I train at about 0630 am now and get home late.......

Still training for the push/pull meet I'll be going to in June.

I hit a sticking point in the bench. I'm having issues with lockouts right now, so I'm going to start a new routine this week involving a heavy day using towels on my chest to bench to, followed by assitance work. I'll have a lighter day as well doing speed benching. I was going to do rack lockouts but I've always had a problem trying to duplicate the ROM on the bench. They hurt my shoulders too and since I just got my shoulder health back this past year, I don't wan to chance toying with rack work....it just hurts to much.

In between, I'm using a deadlift routine written by Ken Snell and I'm using a squat routine I got out of an old, old, old weightlifting paperback.

So far:

BP is at 4 sets of 4,4,3,2 with 200 pounds

SQ is at a heavy set of 5 with 320

Deadlifts were cycled back a bit to 285 for 2 sets of 8 being where I'm at as of last week.

Goal for June:

235 on the BP (Raw)

430 on the Sumo deadlift (raw)

The heavy day BP with involve 3x5 with towels, rolled up and placed on my chest. Each week, or every heavy bench day, the towels will be 4,3,2,1, then add weight and start over with 4 towels again....I'll detail it out this week. Then 3x5 without the towels, 3x5 close grip, and 3x10 of suspended ring pushups, with barbell rows and EZ curls thrown in. I'll probably alternate the rows and curls with the bench press.

The lighter day will be a percentage of my max (225-230) at 50-65% for 10 sets of 2's....and wide grip seated high incline presses, flys or laterals or some type of rotator cuff work, triceps extensions on a decline bench with a custom made bar that has handles welded in the middle of a steel frame that form a V- known as my "V" bar, rows and curls.

I may drop the rows and curls and explore underhand chinning again....depends on how my shoulders feel.

Deadlifts having been 1x10, 1x6 then 2x8 (which will drop down to doubles and singles as the meet approaches) then a final 1x6, and my typical assistance work for both the sqaut and deadlift of hack squats, leg curls and calf raises. I also do either Hise shrugs or DB shrugs on this day.

Hope this wasn't too mind numbing to read....LOL!!

JP

John Prink

03-22-2006, 04:58 PM

OK did my first day with my new bench press routine.....I've never given much credence to partial work like board pressing or partial presses. Everytime I've tried I've been met with miserable results..except for today that is...

Here what I did:

Bench presses: 4 towels on chest 3x5 with 175 using competition grip
Comp. grip BP 175 3x5 to chest
CGBP 3x5 145 - to upper chest
Ring pushups 3x15,12,11

then after a short rest, wide grip barbell curls 3x5, heavy DB rows 3x6 each arm and ab work.

Next bench workout will be about 50-something percent of my current max (225-230) for 10 sets of 2 (speed work) with a seated high incline press, most likely with a wide grip, decline extensions, curls and rows.

Next heavy day will be 3 towel benches and the same assistance work.

So it breaks down to:

4 towels 3x5
3 towels 3x5
2 towels 3x5
1 towel 3x5
4 towels 3x3
3 towels 3x3
2 towels 3x3
1 towel 3x3
4 towels 3x2
3 towels 3x2
2 towels 3x2
1 towel 3x2

The comp. bench and CGBP's which follow all have the same sets and reps like the towel benching.

the lighter day will have the 10 sets of 2 with a variable resistance of 50-62%......

I like the partial benching with the towels......feels good.

JP

Gogiants

03-22-2006, 11:26 PM

John Prink

03-25-2006, 12:10 AM

Hey John,

Maybe you've already described the 4 towel press earlier in your log, and if so, I apologize for my laziness in not finding the decription, but how do the towels work. I assume these are akin to board pressing. I also assume your are rolling the towels. But how do you stack them?

Jack

HI Jack,

No apology needed....actually it's a routine I found on the internet. I'll have to look at my log book to find the website, but I found it on google by typing in "towel bench press".

Anyway, I take 4 towels and fold them lengthwise. I lay the towels on top of each other and simply roll them. Its pretty thick. I simply lay them on my chest and since they don't weigh anything, they're not uncomfortable to have there. They stay put too. I haven't had a problem with them moving at all. It simulates pressing from just below lockout to me. Three, two and one towel would obviously be less thick.

I suppose you could simply roll them into the shape of a "log", but I have mine sort of "flattened out"....sort of oblong shaped I guess.

The beauty of using the towels is that:

1. they're cheap to get. They don't have to be fancy. Inexpensive towels from any local department store would do fine;

2. easy to set up

3. simulates four different positions to work from, although I guess one could simply work from one position only or any combination of positions. There's no rules......

4. for me, I can do a similar workout to a board workout, minus having wood balanced on my chest. This way, if I get "stuck", I can simply drop the weight on the pins, which I raise or lower depending on how many towels I'm using in a particular workout. This I determine with an empty bar, prior to starting the workout.

5. no jarring effect on the joints from stopping on pins plus no uneven extension. You will be able to use heavier weights than usual and maintain the same groove.

6. it is not uncomfortable to have the towel on your chest.....nor is it uncomfortable to touch the bar to the towel on your chest. Think what would happen if, while training alone (as I do) with wood on your chest, and you fail on a rep.....? Now you have a heavy barbell stuck on your chest between blocks of wood......this cannot be fun by any stretch of the imagination.....LOL!!!

To me it just seems like a win-win situation......I'm definitely no bench press monster or champion but this method seems to be one of the better ones out there right now.

Something else I saw, that I can offer up and that's that I saw someone using thick pipe insulation, which I guess would be available at Loews, or Home Depot for cheap. You would simply select a piece maybe what, less than a foot long, slit the insulation and wrap the bar with it. That way, the depth (or height) of the press would be consistent from rep to rep.

I'll let you know how this works out for me. I'll know more in the next few weeks if its working or not. I'm confident it will.

Cheers,

JP

ironeagle6

03-25-2006, 03:48 AM

John:

Thanks for sharing your towel setup. I concur, nothing worse than getting pinned with an ME weight and block of wood sitting on your chest and no spotter.

I'll have to try the towels vs board presses.

:D

Old Olympic Lifter

03-26-2006, 04:41 AM

Hi John
Towel benches.Hey,what a GREAT idea.As you say John,relatively inexpensive and obviously far easier to set up than using blocks of wood. I experimented with board presses several years ago,but as I train in a 'home alone' situation,I found them to be both impractical and lacking in safety.I'll be interested to observe your progress,John.

Regards and best wishes
Ron

Gogiants

03-26-2006, 09:24 PM

Thanks for the explanation John. If I ever delve into PL I may try it. Perhaps I could try stacking towels on top of my head to practice locking out presses :lol:

ms_irreverent

03-26-2006, 09:53 PM

Now there's something I'd love to see! Post pictures! ;)

John Prink

03-26-2006, 10:33 PM

Thanks for the explanation John. If I ever delve into PL I may try it. Perhaps I could try stacking towels on top of my head to practice locking out presses :lol:

That's an idea now, huh?

JP

John Prink

03-27-2006, 12:06 PM

DL day- 2 sets of 8 with 295

then assistance work

Light BP day -

10x2 reps with 135 (speed day)

High incline press - 3x10

Decline triceps extensions - 3x12,10,10

DB rows 3x7

EZ bar curls - 3x8

Abs......

John Prink

03-30-2006, 10:58 PM

Squats - 135x10

235x 2x6
255x 2x5
275x 2x4
295x6
325x5

Toe raises - lightened these up a bit 3x15

Shrugs -3x15

Hack squats 2x12

leg curls - 85 total reps with some leg weights on an incline bench. Still in the midst of having my leg curl machine repaired.

ab work.....

Tomorrow - bench press with 3 towels, comp grip bp and cgbp + decline tricep extensions, curls and DB rows

ironeagle6

03-31-2006, 07:48 AM

John:

You have your own setup? I saw where you were repairing your leg curl.

David

John Prink

04-02-2006, 01:01 AM

John:

You have your own setup? I saw where you were repairing your leg curl.

David

HI David,

Yes, I have a complete gym set up in my garage. I have a power rack, two Olympic bars, 2 special parallel grip bars that hold Olympic plates, an Olympic curling bar, two standard size straight bars, one standard size EZ curl bar, several throwing implements that can be used for grip work, an adjustable kettle bell, a trap bar, hundreds of pounds in barbell plates, 4 adjustable DB bars, springs (chest expanders), Power Rings for pushups, a chin up bar, push ups handles, an inversion table for my back, a wall mounted neck exerciser, a seated plate loading rowing machine and a leg curl/leg extension machine, in addition to an adjustable flat/incline/decline bench............whew!! I think that's all of it....LOL!!!

THis makes for a lot of variety to the workouts and allows me to train without interruption or bother...........and I usually train at odd hours.

JP

John Prink

04-04-2006, 08:58 PM

Sun - Sumo DL 305 for 12 singles after warm ups

Sumo 205 3x5 while standing on plates

Heavy DB shrugs - 90's for 3x15

Toe raises - 3x15

Leg curls 85 total reps

Abs

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tuesday

BP

95x8
115x8
135x5
150x5
175x10,8,7,6 - towel benching on heavy days is working......the lockout is slow, but the bar is locking out without much effort

Seated chest supported rows - 4x8

Decline tricep extensions - 3x12,10,8

Curls - 3x5

Rotator cuff work - L - laterals 3x12

Abs

JP

Old Olympic Lifter

04-04-2006, 10:39 PM

Hi John
WOW!!.That sounds like a really great setup you've got there,John - any chance of posting some 'pics' on the forum for us to see :?:.

Regards and best wishes
Ron

John Prink

04-05-2006, 11:02 PM

HI Ron,

Yes....that's possible. I'll have to have my daughter show me how to get the photos saved and onto the web.....

JP

John Prink

04-07-2006, 02:40 AM

Squat day - based off 300 for an easy single

barx15
150x8
195x6
225x4
255x2
285x1,1
270x3
240x6
210x10

Next workout I'll bump up the poundage 5-10 pounds and use the same percentages.....

Toe raises 3x15

Hack Squats - just one hard set of 12 today....regular squats wiped me out

Leg curls 2x35 reps each

DB shrugs 3x10

Abs

JP

Old Olympic Lifter

04-07-2006, 05:58 AM

Hi John

"Squat day - based off 300 for an easy single"
I'm a little puzzled,John :? - why only 300 for a single,didn't you make 325x5 just a week ago :?:

Regards and best wishes
Ron

John Prink

04-07-2006, 07:33 PM

Oh....I backed off the squats a little to help along with my deadlift. Seems strange I know, but I'll slowly (very slowly) add to the squat while I'm pushing the deadlift along a little faster. I'm just taking it easy....that's all.

And actually, the weights I did were very easy....no belt or wraps....

I'm using a pyramid power workout whereby you start with 50% of whatever you plan to single (or anticipate you can single) and work up from there. Next squat worokout I'll add 5 pounds and start my workout with 155 or 160 to an easy single for 295-300.....the week after I'll bump up the weight another 5 pounds and so on.

I was going to try to do box squats again, but they were such a miserable disaster for me in terms of boosting my deadlift (most likely due to over worked hips) that I decided to keep my squat workout style virtually the same, with the exception of some rep changes to keep things interesting.

I'm actually feeling like my squat would be around 360-365 with wraps and a belt without too much problem.

Thing is, I'm not really training the squat heavy as of late because I don't compete in it anymore......I'm just doing the push/pull meets for for now.

JP

John Prink

04-11-2006, 01:30 PM

DL -

135x10
205x5
245x3
280x2
315x 8 singles Sumo
205x2 sets of 5 while standing on two pieces of 5/8" plywood

DB shrugs 3x12

Toe Raises 3x15

Hack Squats 1 set of 12

Abs -

Barbell side bends 1x15 each side
Roman chair situps 3x15 with 25 pound plate

John Prink

04-13-2006, 03:28 AM

BP light day -

worked out very late tonight....1130pm to 1230am....one of those days.

after warmups 4x8,8,8,7 with 165 close grip

curls 4x5

tricep extensions 3x10

db rows 2x8

laterals - front,side,rear tri set

abs

Bed...............zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

John Prink

04-18-2006, 04:34 PM

Hvy BP day managed to get 205 for 3 singles paused at the chest.

Note: Bench pressing off rolled up towels WORK!! I've blasted past sticking points in just a few weeks of using this movement.

Plan is to utilize the towel method on the heavy day......and speed benching on the lighter bench day.....

DL today:

135x10
205x5
245x3
285x1
325x8 singles

then 215 for 2 sets of 5 sumo pulls from a 2" platform

DB shrugs 3x15

Calf raises 3x15

Abs - Side bends, leg raises and roman chair sit ups

Full contest prep mode now......eating lots of protein based stuff....lunch today was steak, small curd cottage cheese and olives.....plus a diet Coke....

Meet is June 23rd..........

JP

Gogiants

04-18-2006, 10:27 PM

John,

Good work! On the food stuff; What do you currently weigh and at what weight are you planning on competing?

Jack

John Prink

04-18-2006, 11:21 PM

John,

Good work! On the food stuff; What do you currently weigh and at what weight are you planning on competing?

Jack

HI!!

I'm at about 174 right now. I signed up for the 181 pound division, but hope to drop down to the 165's.....mainly because though competitive in the deadlift, my bench is no where near where it needs to be to be competitive at 181....even at 165, its quite low, but as a Masters lifter, its not too bad.

I'm hoping to get the following lifts with white lights:

BP: 1st 203 (maybe heavier)
2nd 214
3rd 225-230

DL: 1st 381
2nd 402-407
3rd 418-429

At a bodyweight of no more than 165 like last year.....

We'll see....I've gained a bit of muscle this year and managed to keep my waist at 31".....we'll see what happens.

JP

Old Olympic Lifter

04-21-2006, 03:52 AM

Hi John

"Hvy BP day managed to get 205 for 3 singles paused at the chest. Note: Bench pressing off rolled up towels WORK!!.I've blasted past sticking points in just a few weeks of using this movement.Plan is to utilize the towel method on the heavy day,and speed benching on the lighter bench day."
Excellent plan,John.During the past six or so months,I've found the weekly 'speed' sessions to be of great assistance to my OH pressing ability - I've also found though,that I tend to lose the benefits of this type of training if I let the poundages 'creep up' beyond the 70% range of my 1RM.

Regards and best wishes
Ron

John Prink

04-24-2006, 11:51 PM

Squats - worked up to an easy 305 on a pyramid schedule I got from strengthcats.com.....

Worked on BP this morning. Did the same pyramid as I did for squats but worked up to 205 for an easy single and back down.

I did flat bench DBBP for 2x10....hadn't done these in a long time and just felt like they'd be good to do. I think they'll help my bottom position. If the lockout starts getting tough again, I'll work in the towel bench presses.

I also did seated rows, wide grip straight bar curls and decline triceps extensions which will probably get rotated with JM presses.

My next workout is a deadlift day with more timed singles at about 335.....and my next bench workout will be speed benching for 8x3 at about 135 or so....followed by the same assistance.

I'm trying to get away from doing too many "odd-ball" assistance exercises, preferring to stay old school and just train.......

JP

John Prink

05-06-2006, 01:25 AM

Been awhile since I posted.

Worked on DL's this morning......worked up to 345x1 then did some plate deadlifts for sets of 5's, calf work, hamstring curls, DB shrugs, and abs....

BP on Sunday......

JP

John Prink

05-07-2006, 05:58 PM

BP 4x8 with 160 - light day

Wide grip straight bar curls - 3x8 these are closing that gap on the inside of the bicep nearest the elbow....should've known about these years ago!

Suspended, feet elevated ring push ups - 3 sets of 12,10,10

Seated rows - 3x8

Parallel grip, bar, flat bench triceps extensions with bar resting on pins in power rack, below the bench, behind my head....2x10,8....fried!!

Abs....

Done..

Eat......

John Prink

05-09-2006, 02:43 PM

Tried Marty's Squat routine of rotating 5x10, with 5x5 and 5x3....I started the routine today at 5x10. I needed a break from the heavy squat poundages. I think the heavy poundages were detracting from the deadlift, which is what I need to be concentrating on right now.

So after doing 135x10 and 185x5 I went straight to 225x10 for a really easy set....and dropped 10-20 pounds per set. I completed 5 sets of 10.

Plate drags with a 45 poumder for 3x10 each - wow!! these were fun.

Toe Raises - 255 3x15

Shrugs with an EZ bar - experimented with this and found that holding the EZ bar was comfortable on the wrists and allowed me to keep my hands close to my body while shrugging. I noticed when I was using the heavy DB's, because of the size of the plates, the DB's were hanging away from my body which caused me to bend slightly more at the waist than I likd doing. I went 18, 15, 15 on these.

Abs - my usual.

Next squat workout will be 5x5....

Next deadlift will be in a week or so. I want to take at least 12 days off from it.

I plan on hitting some triples with up to 85% after warming up a bit, then about 5 single attempts with up 100% for the day....which will be 355 or so.

The sumo deadlifting off of a plate is helping my starting power so I'll continue with those for 1 or 2 sets of 5 with a light weight.

JP

John Prink

05-15-2006, 08:18 PM

DL - did a workout of 3 sets of warm ups, then 3x3 on speed dealifts, then one single each with 85%, 90%, 95%, 97.5% and 100% for the day which turned out to be 365 sumo style with just a belt....no suit.

Finished with assistance work of toe raises, leg curls, abs and shrugs with DB's.

Bench pressed this morning in full contest mode now. Since I have about 6 weeks or so left, and my bench peaks very fast I decided to try a Ricky Dale Crain routine of BP, BP partials (using 2 towels rolled up), Decline BP with a shoulder width grip (triceps were fried) and Power Rings pushups - he recommended cambered bar presses, but I prefer the rings. BP was 3x8, towel BP were 3x3, Decline BP and pushups were 3x8-10. Weights were in the 75 - 80% range

Abs - Side bends - 65x15 each side and Roman chair situps for 25 reps

Wide grip curls 3x7 with 90 using a thick Olympic bar

Seated rows 1set of 8 with 170 - fried!!

Next BP workout will essentially be the same - 3x3 of everything except the pushups on the rings with heavier weights.

The ring work seems to help me with the start of the BP and doesn't burn me out. It offers a terrific tricep workout and I seem to recover faster on these than when using something similiar like DB presses.

Decline presses were done with a deep decline and a shoulder width grip to get the triceps more and WOW! did they burn the triceps pretty good.

The towel work is helping me with the sticking point. I'm using two rolled up towels right now and will pretty much stick with that since they seem to be really helping.

I'm liking the wide grip curls too.

Next workout will be squats on Wednesday. Next BP will be either Fri/Sat....

John Prink

05-17-2006, 11:25 PM

Squat day - Just did a 5x5 routine

Toe raises 3x15

Hack squats 3x8

Leg curls 2x35

DB shrugs 3x15

Abs

Done

RDC bench press routine was a lot of volume. Still a little sore from it. I'm sticking with the plan of a heavy day and a light day for the bench though. I've been experimenting with just working up to a heavy triple and then backing off for a set or two. Too much volume at low reps is difficult right now.

John Prink

05-19-2006, 11:16 PM

Used a powerlifting routine from the late 1960's today.....trained the bench very early this morning 430am......

Anyway I did BP for 135x7, 165x6, 185x5, 205x2, 165x7, 135x7,

Decline BP 155x3x10

Curls 3x8

Triceps Extensions on a decline 3x10-12

Rows 3x8

Abs......

Solid workout.....

John Prink

05-21-2006, 03:20 PM

Deadlift - Sumo

135x10, 185x5, 200x3, 235x3, 250x3, 275x3, 310x2, 330x1, 345x1, 355x1, 365x1 then 215x8 standing on 45's

Leg curls 35 reps, 25 reps

Toe raises - 3x15

Shrugs DB's 20 reps with 95's

Abs

John Prink

06-10-2006, 01:53 AM

Haven't posted in awhile....working a lot....some days are 14-16 hours....wrecking a little bit of havoc on my training but for the most part I'm still managing to get my training done.

Two weeks until my push/pull meet.

I'm planning on the following:

BP 203,214,225

Deadlift 374, 402, 424-429

Back at the end of the month.

JP

michl8898

06-10-2006, 05:51 PM

Haven't posted in awhile....working a lot....some days are 14-16 hours....wrecking a little bit of havoc on my training but for the most part I'm still managing to get my training done.

JP

Isn't it a shame that work sometimes gets in the way of a good workout. Gotta pay the bills I guess. :roll: I have a better time training.

John Prink

06-11-2006, 02:36 AM

Haven't posted in awhile....working a lot....some days are 14-16 hours....wrecking a little bit of havoc on my training but for the most part I'm still managing to get my training done.

JP

Isn't it a shame that work sometimes gets in the way of a good workout. Gotta pay the bills I guess. :roll: I have a better time training.

Now if I could get paid to workout....I wouldn't mind being at work all the time......

Cheers,

JP

Old Olympic Lifter

06-11-2006, 09:20 PM

John Prink

06-12-2006, 06:27 PM

Hi John
Great to see you posting on the forum again - I'm sorry to hear about your extended working hours,I hope that they're not having too much of a negative effect on your present buildup for the push/pull meet.
Good luck with your goals,John.

Regards and best wishes
Ron

Hi Ron,

Actually, this week things have been better.....it nevers fails that when I need the most recovery - before a meet - that's when I usually end up working the most hours.....but everything is going well otherwise.

I'm sticking with the plan right now for the next two weeks before the meet. After that, I plan on training on a very aggressive bench pressing plan to try and get my bench press moving upward.

JP

John Prink

06-13-2006, 01:15 PM

Last heavy BP before the meet:

barx20 slow reps
95x12
135x4
150x2
185x6,5,5.....

Seated rows 2x12 - light

Triceps extensions 2x15 - light

Curls 1x10

ab work

Thursday will be the last DL workout before the meet - probably just hit an opener and quit with that.

Sun or Mon - probably squat 3x10 with super light weight and BP 3x8-10 with a light weight....most likely close grip to keep the triceps pumped.

Abs.....

Friday 6/23 is the meet......

Hoping at this point for 225-230 on the bench and 424-429 on DL......bodyweight is at 173-174.....I'm staying with the added body weight and will compete in the 181 lb division.

Thanks to all those who've read and supported me over the last few months.....especially Big Ron....from NZ.....

Back in a couple of weeks. 'Til then.....keep training......

Cheers,

JP

CinnamonGirl

06-13-2006, 01:57 PM

May everything go according to plan . . . and if luck plays a role, may it all be good!

John Prink

06-16-2006, 11:08 AM

May everything go according to plan . . . and if luck plays a role, may it all be good!

Thank you....Thank you......

JP

Old Olympic Lifter

06-18-2006, 11:33 PM

Hi John
Good luck for your contest on the 23rd - may ALL your lights be WHITE :)

Regards and best wishes
Ron

Gogiants

06-19-2006, 01:00 AM

Good luck John.

ms_irreverent

06-20-2006, 12:13 PM

Best of luck. All white lights to you!

guitarfreak

06-20-2006, 01:34 PM

I'll wish you good form instead of luck! :-)

zebulondragonslayer

06-20-2006, 02:10 PM

Good Luck at your meet John !!! Hope you make some serious PRs !!!

Bobcat

06-20-2006, 03:30 PM

White lights!

John Prink

07-02-2006, 02:27 AM

Thanks a bunch to all those on the board who've been following my training! Much appreciated.....:)

Back to training.

Started a new bench program - fresh and ready to go. Spoke to several lifters at the last meet and got some new insight into bench training.

First, I noticed a lot of the top benchers of the day were using the arch. Obviously this is no surprise to top bencher's that this is the optimal way to bench heavy weight. Never really being able to master the arch in recent years, I'm going to make a concerted effort to learn it and apply it to my training. Also I noticed nearly all of the top benchers placed the bar low on the chest, nearest the xyphoid process, and pressed it back toward the uprights....simple and effective. I always felt out of position benching like that preferring to place the bar higher on the chest with elbows flared out. I've decided to change my entire bench style and try to fall more in line with what I saw at the meet.

I also noticed something totally by accident today when I was training, and that was when my feet were resting on thick blocks, it was easier for me to bench than when my feet were resting on the floor or on 25 pound Olympic plates. At the meet I chose the thinner blocks rather than the thicker ones. I should have chosen the thicker ones for sure. It was a weird observation but one that proved to show me that while my feet were elevated higher, it in effect, created a decline bench press situation which as most of us know are easier on the shoulders and easier to put up than a regular flat bench press. It also made it easier for me to keep the arch locked in tight.

With that in mind, I stayed the course and went through a routine I obtained off the mighty internet that's been used in Finland with success.

It's based on Prilipen's table of percentages and is basically a two day routine of heavy bench on one day with a follow up day of close grip bench pressing. All reps are held for a pause at the chest. The heavy day is basically sets of 2's and 3's and the CGBP day is sets of 5's or so. There's a variety of assistance work included which is a little different than I'm used to but its fun nonetheless.

I'm trying my hand at "pull aparts" using a set of chest expanders in lieu of a piece of rubber tubing. I'm making use of Tate presses for the triceps which I found to my liking.....elbow area is a little sore, but in a good way.

I also started under hand chinning again and found that despite not doing them for over a year now, I cranked out 4 sets of 6 reps with ease. I suspect I'll be adding weight to this exercise in no time....and most likely size to my arms and back as well.

Most of the top benchers that day all described working the living daylights out of their rear delts, triceps and backs. They did simple exercises like dips, chins, rows, shrugs and little else except for making sure they paused each and every rep in training - at every training session.

One of the master's lifters warmed up for the deadlift by doing bent over barbell rows.....he's the guy I mentioned earlier last week who I saw deadlift 507 at 63 years old....old school training at its best, indeed!!

Another master's lifter I talked to (a 303 bench at 181), trained his squat on Monday and Thursday mornings, and his bench press on Monday and Thursday afternoons. He'd go in and do weighted dips and chins on Saturdays and on the following Monday, instead of training his squat he'd deadlift.....he said he did plenty of SLDL's off of a bench, and did a simple routine of 3 singles with a heavy weight after warmups on the sumo deadlift.....he pulled 435 sumo......

Meets are a great resource for trading training ideas.......

I'll start posting my work outs this coming week.

Photos of the previous meet are being processed and should be up for all to view in the next week or so.....

Looks like I may do a full power meet in November.....that should give me sometime to put a few pounds on all my lifts.

Cheers,

JP

John Prink

07-06-2006, 05:05 AM

CGBP day - warmed up and did 5 sets of 3

Practiced the arch, placement of the feet.....changed the height of the hooks in the rack to lower the bar so I could work on the arch.....

Parallel grip bar decline tricep extensions - 3 sets....

Did overhand pullups instead of rows.....read an article (and talked to other lifters) who used the pull up with success. I used the pull up years ago and didn't (at the time) think that it helped with my bench pressing, but in retrospect, the years that I did pullups were the years my bench was strong and I had no shoulder pain. So I worked on pullups today with a competition bench grip....and probably could've stopped there but did:

also did seated press and EZ bar curls...... for 2 sets each.

Pullups are going to be one of my main assistance exercises for the bench.

I'm using a 5,4,3,2,1 routine for the squat and a Ricky Dale Crain Deadlift routine......

more later.

JP

John Prink

07-08-2006, 03:26 PM

Started a squat routine I got from Ricky Dale Crain. I wrote to him with questions about squatting as a Master's lifter. He gave me the Rick Gaugler routine to try. I'm sore today......I also started working on Hise shrugs again. I had been doing DB shrugs, but ran out of room on my dumb bell bars (was up to 100 lbs each and ran out of room on the DB for plates) and wanted something a little more challenging. One thing I notice with doing Hise shrugs is that my squat automatically goes up when I do this exercise. Not sure why, but it helps.

So I did this: worked up to 245 for 2 sets of 3 ansd backed off to 210 for 2 sets of 3 pauses. This is a 16 week program. I'm looking at a 355-365 max right now. I haven't trained the squat heavy in years becuase I've concentrated on the deadlift. Now I'm going to try to put together a full power meet total.......

The DL routine I'm on is also a Ricky Crain routine. I worked up to and easy 300 single and then did sets of 5 with 205 while standing on plates. I'm going to try to bust through this barrier I'm at and make the 429 lift I want.

The BP routine is a routine from Finland which uses the Prilepin protocol. Its basically a wave type routine where the percentages are different each week. I used a routine similiar to this for the bench press years ago. Its a twice a week routine with one day being a competition grip/arch day, with the weights only going as heavy as about 84-86%. The other day is a close grip bench day where I'll either use a flat bench or a decline.

I started pullups again (overhand grip) which I feel, after talking with other lifters and reading articles, might be what I need to boost my bench. I had been doing seated rows but didn't seem to get the carry over effect I was looking for. I'll try the pullups for awhile to see if they work. One of the smaller lifters I talked to swears by pullups to boost your bench. Can't argue with that....he was bench pressing in the low 300's at 165.....at 47 years old.....I'd be happy with a 300 lb BP.

Cheers,

JP

Gogiants

07-08-2006, 04:09 PM

Good luck with your new routines John. I'm sure you'll get the 429 pound pull.

As a side bar, I met RDC at Crain's Muscle World a while back, he sure seems like a nice fella.

Jack

Old Olympic Lifter

07-08-2006, 09:10 PM

John Prink

07-09-2006, 12:32 AM

Good luck with your new routines John. I'm sure you'll get the 429 pound pull.

As a side bar, I met RDC at Crain's Muscle World a while back, he sure seems like a nice fella.

Jack

Hi jack,

I got that feeling when I e-mailed him. He's a nice guy and takes the time to answer questions. So far so good with the routines......they're interesting.

JP

John Prink

07-09-2006, 12:43 AM

Hi John

"I haven't trained the squat heavy in years because I've concentrated on the deadlift.Now I'm going to try to put together a full power meet total."
I'm pleased to hear this,John - it sounds as if your shoulder is finally 'coming right'.Have you a date in mind for a full meet?.
BTW,that was some great advice that you gave fireman1 in your post to him about warming up during a contest - I've often followed a similar approach during the years when I've been handling either Olympic or powerlifters on the platform.

My regards and best wishes
Ron

Hi Ron,

Shoulders feel good that's for sure. I'm planning on keeping the routines very basic and simple.

As far as meets go, there are two - one in September and one in November. I think the November meet is more likely to be the one I choose. That way I'll have plenty of time to post a nice big total. I think I'll stick with what I'm doing. Since these cycles are long, I can always back off a bit if I feel I'm getting too close to peaking and am still too far out from a meet. This will be the first full power meet I've been to in about 10 years!!

Thanks, I like to help fellow powerlifters out. I really like the sport and admire the other lifters for there efforts....even the ones that are beating me....LOL!!!

Cheers,

John

John Prink

07-13-2006, 08:30 PM

OK I decided I'm going to train for an October meet - a full power meet - sanctioned through the USPF....that way I can use a bench shirt.

Anyway, I'm using a Ricky Dale Crain deadlift routine.....went up to 305 for an easy single and finished with a couple of sets of 5 while standing on plates.

I'm training my hamstrings pretty hard, dropped the Hack squat on deadlift day (kept it on squat day though), but am working on barbell shrugs.....I ran out of room on my DB's for plates.....did calves as usual and did lots of ab work.

The RDC routine is pretty straight forward. Warmups consist of 10,6,4 reps and then a few single attempts with managable weights followed by sets of 5's for a few sets and finishing with the plate deads.....

I may give his BP routine a shot as well. I've corresponded with him....he's a nice guy. Gave me lots of advice about the powerlifts which I've been following and which hopefully will pay off.

I'm hoping the bench routine works. I'm confident it'll work for me. I've completely changed the manner in which I bench.

I now place my head between the uprights, create a very deep arch for myself, and brought my grip in a bit. I also bench with elbows in to take advantage of my back muscles more fully. He told me that I probably need to increase my back work as well as work the pause more often.

So it looks like I'll bench twice every eight days or so to take advantage of more recovery. If I use the RDC routine, I'll have one heavy day which will include the competition bench, lockouts (I'll use towels here so the movement doesn't jack up my joints), decline benching (with a closer grip for triceps work) and either decline extensions or flat DB benching. He uses a cambered bar for his last exercise but I don't own one. Though I probably could use an EZ curl bar in the same manner as a cambered bar, I may try that to see how it feels.

The lighter bench day consists of flat CGBP, inclines (for me that'll be barbell) and some lateral raises to train the rotator cuffs.

I'll add back and bicep work to the mix.....

The big problem for me seems to be the initial launch off the chest. The towel benching seems to help....though my pressing is slow......the towels seems to help me grind the rep out. Speed work seems to just make my shoulders hurt and doesn't help my bench at all.

I looked back at my old log books and saw that partial work helped my bench.

I also saw where I was using a warm up of 225x7 reps.......those were the days....hopefully I'll be able to re-create that effort.

Cheers,

JP

John Prink

07-21-2006, 10:01 PM

Week three of my DL routine: All weights are based off previous contest max of 402.5.....

95x10 )
155x6 ) standing on 5/8" platform - plates on floor
220x4 )
Switch to floor, 100 pound plates on bar
275x1
300x1
315x1
280x5
250x5
215x5 2 sets standing on 45 pound plates

toe raises - 255 3x15

barbell shrugs - 200 3x10

hamstring work - lying leg curls with ankle weights for 50 reps then an exercise I found in an old York book - standing leg pull ins wearing ankle weights for 2x10 each....glutes, hams and hips were fried!!

Side bends and roman chair work

light BP workout next up......

JP

John Prink

07-27-2006, 02:05 PM

Did my light BP routine on Saturday 7/22....did some CGBP's, Power Rings pushups and some curls....

I squatted on Monday 7/24....worked up to 280 for 2x3 and backed off to 245 for two sets of 3 reps, pausing for 3 seconds on each of thos reps.

I bench pressed yesterday (Wed - 7/26)....good workout....hit 4x5 with 170 in my new arch position. Did lots of seated rows, 2x10 on flat bench pause DB presses with palms facing grip.....triceps and a few hammer curls.

I'm practicing my new arch and grip. I had my daughter take photos from behind while I was lying on the bench so I could see where my grip fell. I decided to try a narrower grip in order to get the launch off the chest where I've been having problems. By using the narrower I'm able to get more triceps into the push....now I'll work some mid range pressing into the mix off towels to help with the lockout....

Deadlift on Friday.....

JP

John Prink

07-29-2006, 09:18 PM

Deadlifts went off without a hitch....but I can tell that only 7 days between deadlifts sessions made a difference in the way the weights felt.....

I worked up to 320 today for an easy single followed by shrugs, some calf work, hamstrings and calves today....I'm still using the Ricky Crain deadlift routine which seems to be working for me very well.

I think, since I'm planning on a three lift meet, that I'll just do the following rotation which seemed to work for me in the past. For instance I'll:

M - squat

W - bench

F - deadlift

M - bench

W - squat

F - bench etc......

That way the bench gets worked twice one week and once the next week and the squat and deadlift are done every 9-10 days....perfect.

Bench is up next on Monday and I think I'll try a modified version of Ricky Crain's BP routine. I'll use the regular bench press with competition arch and grip and do pauses, followed by some lockout work such as rotating towel benching into the mix (they really seemed to help me a lot), followed by some sort of decline work and I'll use a close grip to hit the triceps hard followed by either:

DB benching, suspended pushups on the power rings or maybe some parallel grip tricep work....Crain did cambered bar benching. I'm not a fan of those actually.

The template was:

BP
Lockouts
Decline BP
Cambered bar

Its easy enough to plug in just about any exercise that serves the same purpose. He has a second day involving CGBP's, incline and various lateral raises.....I'll omit that stuff and stick to what I need to do.

I'll add seated rows and some type of curl to finish up.....

JP

John Prink

07-29-2006, 09:19 PM

John Prink

08-01-2006, 12:02 AM

BP -

95X10
135X5
155X3 pauses
170X1 "
180X1 "
190X1 "
170X5 "

Four towel bench press lockouts- 170 2 sets of 5

Decline BP 155x3 sets of 8

JM press 135 3sets of 8

Seated rows 3x10 at 185

Hammer curls 35 pounders for 2x10

Nice workout.....

John Prink

08-03-2006, 08:18 PM

Squat day:

Week 13 of the Rick Gaugler routine

100x10
100x5
165x3
225x1
260x1
295x3
295x3
260x3, 2 sets, each set is a 3 second pause

Toe raises - 260 3x15

Hack squats - 155 2x8...fried!!

Standing hamstring curls - 3x10

DB shrugs - 75's for 2 sets of 20 each

Abs

Bench Press up next....

John Prink

08-05-2006, 04:38 PM

Sat 08/05/06 BP today - heavy triple day......

45x10
95x8
135x5
155x3
190x3 (not heavy today)

All sets were arched, paused (pausing is making a tremendous difference) and feet were on high blocks.....

Goal is to add weight when the final set is 5 reps.

3 towel BP - 205x3x3 - solid and strong

DB BP 65's for 2 sets of 8 - palms facing each other

Seated rows - 3x10 with 190 - these are coming along fine

Good old fashioned decline bench, lying dumb bell triceps extensions - 25 pounders for 3 sets of 10

EZ bar curls - 2x7 at 105.....hadn't done these in awhile but felt strong on them.

Abs

Deadlift on Monday

Decided to really put forth the effort on the bench and forego exercises like decline benching which seemed redundant after doing arched, paused benching ....I found my regular bench press (now) is much like a decline especially since I discovered the higher blocks and set up on the bench with an arch.

I am going to rotate thru the towel benching with (most likely) floor presses and close grip presses. I am going to stick with the DB presses as I think these are helping with the launch off the chest.

I also noticed soreness in the shoulders (in a good way) due to the paused bench reps I've been doing. I'm also pausing the seated row reps too and am feeling those in the rear delts...

Cheers,

JP

John Prink

08-07-2006, 11:35 PM

Deadlifts were easy today...this 10 day thing between sessions is paying off....worked up to 325x1 for an easy single and backed off for 2 sets of 5 and then down to 255 for 2x5 off plates. There was a total of about 11 sets of deadlift.

Toe raises 3x15

Hise shrugs 3x20

Hack Squats - one hard set of 10 today....legs fried!

hamstring work - 2 high rep sets

Abs....done...

time for food.....

'til Thursday - bench press

John Prink

08-13-2006, 11:06 PM

haven't posted in awhile....work, family, blah, blah, blah...

Here we go:

Last bench routine saw me using the power rack for singles up to 205 form my sticking point and close grip benching from the bottom position....

Today was squats....it was a back off week....hit 260 for sets of 5 pauses and 225 for 2 sets of 3 reps for 3 seconds pauses and 2 sets of 10 close stance pause squats....

jp

John Prink

08-17-2006, 12:46 PM

Shoulder pre-hab....Cuban presses with DB's

BP worked up to heavy set of 3 then backed off to a set of 8 and finally a set of 12 reps.....

Close grip bench press using a parallel grip bar 5x10

Seated rows - 5x8

Curls EZ bar .....5,4,3,2,1....this was fun...

Abs

Shoulder re-hab - cable work....

JeffS

08-17-2006, 01:24 PM

John Prink

08-17-2006, 08:16 PM

A couple of years ago I put in a solid month or so on a 5-4-3-2-1 progression for EZ bar curls with the idea that I might do a curl competition (WNPF and NASA both offer them - not sure about any other feds).

It was surprising to me how quickly the max single progressed, I had gotten up to about 135 before I stopped.

I know....that rep scheme is cool isn't it? My buddy has been trying to convince me to try it for the bench press for years....I never got much out of it using it for anything othe than curls, deadlifting, squatting and military pressing. He uses it for the bench and swears by it though. I'm hovering around 115 right now.

JP

John Prink

08-17-2006, 08:20 PM

Deadlift routine today -

135x10
160x6
220x4
260x2
295x1
320x1
335x1
300x5
270x5
245x5 2 sets - while standing on 45 pound plates

barbell shrugs - 205x10,10,8

toe raises - 270x3 sets of 12....

leg curls - got machine re-welded.....works great 3x12.....

Abs....

JP

Tom

08-17-2006, 11:23 PM

John Prink

08-17-2006, 11:59 PM

What poundages do you use for the 5-4-3-2-1 scheme? I mean, do you use the same weight for all sets, or do you bump it up 5 pounds between sets? Just curious. I've seen this scheme in a couple programs, but never tried it myself.

HI,

I started with 95x5, 100x4, 105x3, 110x2, 115x1.....to move the series along I would try 100x5,4...then 105x3, 110x2, 115x1....next workout would be 105x5, 110x4,3, 115x2,1....just little jumps like that....

I don't do say 115 for five and work down to one......I'd rather add little bits of weight and hope for at least a 10 pound increase of the series of the set to end with say 125 for 1 rep....I use an EZ curl bar too....saves my writs and elbows....

Hope that helps....

JP

John Prink

08-23-2006, 09:54 PM

Moving ahead with a more aggressive singles routine...

Did squats yesterday....worked up to an easy single with 280 and will add at least 10 pounds a week until I can no longer do so....did pause squats and these are helping with the squat.....also did narrow stance squats at the end of my wide stance routine....felt really good....

Now that the leg curl machine is back on-line I'm using that quite a bit too...

Tomorrow is bench press with singles.....a few towel benches, some close grip benching from the pins at chest level and lots of back and bicep work.

JP

John Prink

08-24-2006, 09:58 PM

1. BP singles routine

95x10
135x5
160x3 )
180x1 )
190x1 ) all paused with competition arch and grip
200x1 )
180x5 )
180x5 2 sets with towels on chest (paused)

this is the Maroscher Team 8 week singles routine....

2. 16" close grip bench press from pins at chest 125 3x10

3. seated rows 215 5x6

4. Tate presses 30 pound DB's 2x12

5. Wide grip straight bar curls 3x8 at 70....I feel these on the inside of the bicep....where I need the work

Abs

The paused reps and close grip pause bench seem to be helping the bottom end strength along with the pausing. The Tate presses are helping the triceps down by the elbow area and seem to be helping the lock out.....

Next up deadlift....

JP

John Prink

09-16-2006, 12:15 AM

I've been busy working a lot lately but I got some time to update my log so here goes:

Last workout had me doing Deadlift:
135x10
225x5
275x3
320x3
350x1 )
365x1 ) Belt only/no suit or wraps
380x1 )
400x3,2,1 in the rack below the knees
270 2 sets of 3 standing on 45 pound plates

Leg curls 3x12
Toe Raises 3x15
Abs - lots of barbell side bends and leg raises

Tomorrow will be a bench day....

Playing around with lots of ideas on the bench right now as I have no meets planned (maybe November but I'll see)....

I stopped doing singles - started to burn out a bit on them. Decided to try working up to a heavy triple for the day and then backing off to one or two sets of higer reps on the heavy day. My theory being that whatever I can triple I'll always open with at a meet.

After much agonizing and thinking, I remember that when my bench was climbing, years ago, I did a routine involving a heavy triple for the day followed by two sets or so of higher reps to failure - going as high as 15 reps. The higher reps, wide grip, seemed to launch my BP so I'll ty that again. I know that was then, and this is now but it worked then, so maybe it'll work again now.

I'm planning on keeping the bench routine really simple as I seemed to do better with a simple routine as opposed to the fancy ones. The plan anyway is to do the bench of course, with some overhead pressing (which is supposed to be one of the better exercises for RAW lifters) plus one assistance bench exercise which I'll rotate like declines or pin presses, both of which seem to help my raw press. The decline really works
me pretty well....I seem to "blow up" on these.....

Plus I'll add in my usual tricep work like decline or floor extensisons which will also be rotated. I'll hit the back pretty hard to with seated rows, though I'm not sure if I'll keep them on my bench day or rotate those thru the week into my squat/deadlift days - as long as I get them in I mind where they end up really. Plus I like doing curls too.

I'll work a lighter bench day too, but keep the assistance the same.....that way there won't be too many days off from the upper body exercises. But there will be as many as 8-10 days between heavy sessions....if I can't recover from that I don't know what else will work...LOL!!

So:

4-5 sets of Competition style bench press, followed by 3 sets of decline press, 3 or so sets each of presses, tricep extensions, rows and a few curls....

Cheers,

JP

John Prink

09-16-2006, 12:21 AM

What poundages do you use for the 5-4-3-2-1 scheme? I mean, do you use the same weight for all sets, or do you bump it up 5 pounds between sets? Just curious. I've seen this scheme in a couple programs, but never tried it myself.

Hi Tom,

Sorry for the late response. I would add weight each set, for example on the deadlift I would do this:

135x5
225x4
315x3
365x2
405x1

On the squat I would take smaller jumps but still add 30-50 pounds between sets.

On BP I would take 5-15 pound jumps. I'm presently using this rep scheme on the barbell curl to get my poundage up on this lift as follows:

100x5
105x4
110x3
115x2
120x1

So for the smaller muscle group I'd use smaller jumps, bigger muscles, bigger jumps....

Cheers,

JP

Old Olympic Lifter

09-16-2006, 10:45 AM

John Prink

09-16-2006, 01:45 PM

Hi John
It's good to see you posting on the forum again.I'm almost at the end of my vacation in the States now,so I hope to resume normal posting myself in about a week's time.

Regards and best wishes........keep training hard
Ron

Hi Ron,

Glad your trip is going well....looking forward to reading your on-line workout log once again....

Have fun....

Cheers,

JP

Old Olympic Lifter

09-16-2006, 09:19 PM

Hi again,John
Thanks for your swift reply.

I'll post brief details of my workouts here once I've returned home - I'm afraid they were all very disappointing from my personal POV,as I made the foolish mistake of NOT following a regular pattern of eating combined with excessive walking in temperatures approaching the mid to high nineties!! - something that my aging body is just NOT accustomed to :lol:.

Regards and best wishes
Ron

Gogiants

09-16-2006, 10:46 PM

Don't let him fool you John, he worked out well while in my garage!

John Prink

09-16-2006, 11:18 PM

Don't let him fool you John, he worked out well while in my garage!

I believe it!!

We squatted together....and I learned a thing or two, or three....about training in general, pulling, snatching, cleaning and styles of all the great lifters.....plus I learned how to and how not to place the plates on the bar...LOL!!!

Ron is probably the most knowledgable person I ever met in terms of trivia and weightlifting lore....he's simply a wealth of information and in talking with him I learned a lot about New Zealand....a place I've always been fascinated with.

He's an extremely nice gentleman...very refreshing to meet someone like him considering the people I usually meet everyday in my line of work.....it was really great meeting him and I only hope to get to NZ to visit him in the future.

John Prink

09-20-2006, 12:41 AM

Sat was BP....working for the heavy triple...did an easy 185x3

then worked declines for 3x8

parallel grip log bar press 3x5

rows - 3x12

parallel grip bar tricep extensions 3x12 - tri's fried!

curls 3x5

abs.......

Squats today:

135x10 - narrow stance
185x5 - narrow stance
225x5 - narrow stance
260x3 - wide stance
280x1 )
290x1 ) -belt/light wraps (knees hurt a bit)
300x1 )
280x3 - wide stance
230x5 - paused
185x5 - paused

FRIED!!

Power cleans - 95x5, 115x3, 135x3, 140x1, 150x1 - haven't done power cleans in years but I'm going to work on them....got bored with shrugs

Calf raise - 3x15

leg curls - 3x12

Abs....

Bench up next....

John Prink

09-21-2006, 07:52 PM

Was reading about JM Blakely's routine of working some easy warm-ups, then hitting 2-3 singles with 85%, then backing down and doing 4 sets of 6 with a fixed weight and doing paused reps.

The second day was geared toward accessory work - 2 exercises for 4x6 each. So today was a light bench day anyway. I decided to try seeing how this felt. Someone (sorry, forgot who) on the board here also suggested a routine like this of 4x6...here's what I did today:

Seated press with a thick barbell - 4x6, top set at 130. Hoping to get my shoulder strength back up with these.

JM Press - 4x6 top set at 160....straight bar

Seated rows 3x8

Floor extensions w/ my crazy square bar w/ the V shape handles - 2x15

Wide grip barbell curls 5x5

ab work

The heavy day would as described above with the rows, extensions and curls....going to work on grip width too. Maybe try coming in a little toward the center somewhere between 22-24 inches I guess.

JP

John Prink

09-25-2006, 02:35 AM

Deadlift today:

135x10
185x5
225x3
275x3
300x2
335x1
365x1
400x1
335x3
285x5 reps 2 sets standing on plates

Hi rep shrugs with 135 3 sets 'til tired

Toe raises 255 3x15

Leg curls 95 3x12

Side bends and leg raises

next up is bench....

The 400 on the deadlift was done in a loose suit and wearing belt, sumo style...and I felt like I could've got 3 reps out of it....wanted to take it easy though since this is the 1st time since June that I pulled that much.

I really feel that the hamstring work and the side bends are helping the deadlift.

Old Olympic Lifter

09-26-2006, 06:38 AM

Hi John

"The 400 on the deadlift was done in a loose suit and wearing belt,sumo style - and I felt like I could've got three reps out of it - wanted to take it easy though since this is the first time since June that I pulled that much."

Well done,John - you should be good for at least 440 in a contest now.The deadlift is a very psychological lift - you may remember my telling you that when I was coaching my nephew two years ago,he was NEVER able to pull 400lbs in training,yet come contest time he deadlifted an EASY 190kgs (419lbs) and had 205kgs (452lbs)up to his knees!!.

Keep up the good training,John - my regards and best wishes
Ron

John Prink

09-26-2006, 08:16 PM

440 is a lofty goal...LOL!! I'm looking to close in on the 425-430 gap first...LOL!! Baby steps indeed!!

I was reading the latest edition of Powerlifting USA and Wade Hooper, another 165'er, is profiled in there. He uses that Boris Shieko routine involving training four days a week with all three lifts being done on three of the days....I don't know how people do that. I can't imagine deadlifting three times a week....its enough to do it just once in ten days, let alone three times a week.

JP

Gogiants

09-27-2006, 12:19 AM

John,

Do you know of any on-line resources that outline the Sheiko? I'd like to read about it, just for grins.

Thanks,
Jack

John Prink

09-27-2006, 01:38 AM

John,

Do you know of any on-line resources that outline the Sheiko? I'd like to read about it, just for grins.

Thanks,
Jack

Try this:

www.zyworld.com/powerlifting/workout.htm

scroll through the workouts...

jp

Old Olympic Lifter

09-28-2006, 08:29 PM

Hi John (and Jack)

"I was reading the latest edition of Powerlifting USA and Wade Hooper,another 165'er,is profiled in there.He uses that Boris Shieko routine involving training four days a week with all three lifts being done on three of the days.I don't know how people do that.I can't imagine deadlifting three times a week,it's enough to do it just once in ten days,let alone three times a week."

As Scott Shetler pointed out in another recent thread,the Russian team has been suspended from IPF competitions for a year due to positive drug test results - therein probably lies your answer as to why they were able to conduct such a high volume of heavy training :). As for deadlifting more than once a week,IMO this is a really good way to run the risks of 'stuffing your back' for life,and I've personally witnessed examples of this actually happening.

Regards and best wishes
Ron

John Prink

09-28-2006, 11:25 PM

John Prink

09-28-2006, 11:30 PM

Well I squatted this evening and had a great session. As of late I've been training both narrow and wide stance squatting. Its made a tremendous difference in my hip power and stability.

barx10/narrow
135x10/narrow
185x5/narrow
225x5/narrow
250x3/narrow
275x3/wide
300x1/wide
315x1/wide
275x3/wide
250x3/narrow
225x2 sets of 3 reps paused for 3 seconds each

toe raises 3x15

leg curls 3x12-15

seated DB power cleans 15's for 2x8 and 35's for 2x5...these were interesting...not sure if I'll keep them

Abs.....

good session........

next up is bench on saturday

John Prink

09-30-2006, 06:07 PM

Bench assistance day -

Seated hi incline press with close grip 4 sets of 6 finishing with 140x6 - PR....most I've pressed in awhile.

Close grip bench press to one towel on chest 4x6 at 165 - triceps fried!

Rows - 6 sets - 3 sets of 10 with a wide grip and 3 sets of 8 with a narrow grip

Rolling floor DB extensions 3 sets 15

BB curls - 2x5 wide grip.....

fried!

Abs....

Deadlift up next.....

Gogiants

09-30-2006, 06:12 PM

Hi John,

Good workout!
Rolling floor DB extensions 3 sets 15

I don't even know what these are.

Jack

John Prink

09-30-2006, 10:43 PM

Hi Jack,

Rolling DB extensions = fancy name that Louie Simmons gave to two dumb bell, parallel grip, tricep extensions, while lying on the floor....the key is to get the plates that face your thumbs to touch the floor....then you place the rear plates on the floor as well...hence the rolling name. Dave Tate's website over at elite fit.com has photos....otherwise just google it.

Cheers,

JP

Old Olympic Lifter

10-01-2006, 10:33 PM

Hi John

Well I squatted this evening and had a great session. As of late I've been training both narrow and wide stance squatting. Its made a tremendous difference in my hip power and stability.

barx10/narrow
135x10/narrow
185x5/narrow
225x5/narrow
250x3/narrow
275x3/wide
300x1/wide
315x1/wide
275x3/wide
250x3/narrow
225x2 sets of 3 reps paused for 3 seconds each

toe raises 3x15

leg curls 3x12-15

seated DB power cleans 15's for 2x8 and 35's for 2x5...these were interesting...not sure if I'll keep them

Abs.....

good session........

next up is bench on saturday

That's an impressive looking squat program,John.The world record-holder for the 110kg division back in the late 1970's,Marvin Phillips,used a similar principle of working from narrow to wide stance in his squat workouts (refer Terry Todd's 'Inside Powerlifting'),though the 'bulk' of his training was performed in sets of 'fives'.

Regards and best wishes
Ron

John Prink

10-03-2006, 11:26 PM

Deadlift was today....hit a PR today too!!

135x10 ) raw
185x5 ) "
245x5 ) "
275x3 ) "
315x3 ) belt only
335x3 ) suit straps down, belt
350x1 ) " " " "
380x1 ) suit straps up, belt
410x1 PR! " " " " - felt rather easy too
350x3 ) suit straps down, belt
300x 2sets of 3 standing on 45's - belt only

leg curls 3x12
toe raises 3x15
barbell shrugs 2x20
Ab work

First time in many, many years I've pulled that much in training....I might've had maybe another 10 pounds in me but didn't want to push it too hard.

On the road to the 430 deadlift I've wanted for awhile now.....

I'm using a routine I got from Ricky Crain....it actually runs out next week with a 425 pull so I may extend it one more week and try 420 next time out and 430 the workout after that.....

I can feel that the close stance squats I've been doing seem to be helping with the hip power I needed. The deadlifts from the plates are awesome for starting power too.

JP

CinnamonGirl

10-04-2006, 09:08 AM

Congratulations on that PR!!

John Prink

10-04-2006, 11:58 PM

HI! Thanks a bunch...how's your training going so far? :)

Gogiants

10-05-2006, 02:31 AM

Excellent pulling John. Way to go on that PR!

John Prink

10-05-2006, 04:41 PM

Thanks! It felt good.

OK I must be doing something right because benching felt easy today. I looked at my log book and it seems the last time I did heavy bench was about 9 days ago...and it seems the heavy seated pressing and CGBP's on another day are helping. I changed my grip slightly bringing it in a bit which seems to be helping with the launch from the chest.

Today's Bench Press session:

45x10
95x5
135x3
155x3
175x3
195x3
205x2 PR! for me....
175x7

Lockouts - pin #14 just above chest - 175x3
# 13 - 195x3
# 12 - 215x3
# 11 - 235x3

DB Rows - (for a change of pace) - 3x6

Rolling DB floor tricep extensions - 2x15 - triceps fried!

Wide grip straight bar curls - 3x5 reps

Abs....

Excellent session!

JP

srh

10-05-2006, 05:07 PM

Congratulations! A good session and a personal record on something you have been working on really has a positive impact mentally as well as physically..

srh (Randy)

Old Olympic Lifter

10-05-2006, 11:29 PM

Hi John

Deadlift was today....hit a PR today too!!
First time in many, many years I've pulled that much in training....I might've had maybe another 10 pounds in me but didn't want to push it too hard.
On the road to the 430 deadlift I've wanted for awhile now.....
I'm using a routine I got from Ricky Crain....it actually runs out next week with a 425 pull so I may extend it one more week and try 420 next time out and 430 the workout after that.....
JP

WELL DONE - congratulations on your 410lb deadlift,John,but don't 'sell yourself short',my friend.IMHO,all you need is the presence of a training partner in your next session to provide that little extra 'spark' of motivation,and you'll pull 430 for sure.

Regards and best wishes
Ron

John Prink

10-06-2006, 01:35 AM

Hi Folks,

Thanks a bunch! Apparently backing off the bench pressing, but maintaining the triceps work has had a positive impact on my bench press...also working on seated pressing - even if its only been for a little while - has also had a positive impact on the bench press too.

Note to self: do what works for YOU and forget about what other other folks are doing.....

Cheers,

JP

srh

10-06-2006, 04:21 PM

John:

I ran across in my boxes of old literature a training program by Pat Casey (mid 1960s) (First man to officially bench 600, eventually doing 628, I believe. I also believe offhand the was the first to oficually squat with 800). He used no suit for his presses as they were not around at that time. I saw a photo of him doing around 580 with only an undershirt on. In addiition, unlike many of todays top benchers and squaters he was rather tall well over 6 feet. George Frenn and excellent powerlifter (squat of 853 lbs at 242) and hammer thrower said he observed Casey at or near the time he was doing 600 lbs. He used a lot of heavy seated presses in his workouts.

I will give the brief workout for you or anyone that might be interested:

Monday - medium heavy bench presses doing about 5 singles with 85 percent of his maximum. This was followed by heavy dips.

Thursday- Heavy lockout bench presses, then seated presses sometimes going as heavy as he could for one rep.

Saturday- Workup to maximum bench and then come down and do 2 singles with 95% of his present maximum.

Casey believed that after a point heavy assistance exercises were just as if not more important to a lifter that had been working on the bench press for a considerable time and his technique was solid. I guess it is somewhat like a veteran Olympic lifter who has more-or-less perfected his technique where exercises like pulls, lockouts, etc. are utilized just as much if not more than just the pure lifts.

His workouts remind me somewhat of Jim Williams about 5-6 years later.

If you or anyone would like I can email you the pic of him doing a seated press. He is withjout a shirt and the upper body is incredible and tapers in to his waist something that is not seen very often today. The pic looks about 1967 or so.

(srh) Randy

John Prink

10-07-2006, 12:37 AM

Hi Randy,

Thanks for the info. That is indeed his workout. If you search for www.americanpowerliftevolution.net you'll also find specific routines by all the greats simply by going to the search section and then clicking on the lifters biographies or simply clicking on bench press articles....awesome info in there.

Cheers,

JP

Old Olympic Lifter

10-08-2006, 12:04 AM

Hi Randy (and John)
Sorry to be critical,but I have just a few minor corrections/additions to your post concerning Pat Casey and his training.

Casey actually stood 6'1" in height,and his best officially weighed bench press was 616lbs in June,1967 (refer Casey's interview with Jeff Everson published in the April 1985 issue of PLUSA magazine-page17).He later raised an easy 620lbs at the LA championships that same year,but for some unknown reason it was never weighed or accepted as a record,and he had earlier also made a 'strict touch and go' bench press with 635lbs in training.His best ever competition squat was 805lbs recorded in a 1966 contest,where he also became the first lifter to officially exceed a 2000lb total - he had an 825lb squat 'red-lighted' at the LA championships in 1967.Pat was also the first teenager to officially bench press 500lbs,which he accomplisheed back in 1959 at a bodyweigth of only 238lbs!!.

Randy,Casey's training program during his peak years was actually far more extensive than your post indicated, although he only benched twice a week on Mondays and Fridays (refer part two of Casey's interview with Jeff Everson published in the May 1985 issue of PLUSA magazine-page14). On Mondays he began his session with heavy lockout singles off pins from both low (3-4" above his chest) and high (7-8" above his chest) starting positions,following which he would remove the pins and do a couple of 'pump' sets of 20-25 reps with 325lbs on the full movement.
Casey would then do five or six sets of presses on an incline bench (about 35-45 degrees) for 3-5 reps with 180-220lb dumbbells (PR of five sets of four with 210lbers) - he later substituted barbell presses for these (PR of 535x1 on a 45 degree incline!).His third exercise was parallel bar dips for five sets of three reps with 300+lbs of extra weight (PR of 380@340 bwt for a total of 720lbs!!),which were then followed by five sets of three reps on the seated barbell press with around 310-330lbs (PR of 405x1!),finishing a 'pump' set of 20 reps with a lighter weight - these were performed with his back braced and using a wide grip with elbows out (starting from chin level),with the objective of simulating a bench press in a seated position.Pat's fifth and final exercise was the supine tricep pullover and press for five sets of 3-5 reps with up to 300lbs (PR of 350x2!) - using a 10" grip,he would lower the weight back behind his head,then pull it back .over and press it.

On Tuesdays Casey would squat and deadlift,then rest up until his second bench session on Fridays.He would begin these with regular benches,working up to five or six relatively heavy singles - each fortnight he would finish off with some 5-10 second pause reps with 405lbs,followed by two 'pump' sets of 20 reps with 315lbs.The rest of his Friday program was the same as Mondays,except for the omission of lockouts and dips.Even in his earlier days,Pat's training routines were very similar - he would commence with regular benches,working up to a heavy single,then do sets of 'fives' on incline dumbbell presses,parallel bar dips,and the supine tricep presses (refer the May 1959 issue of "Iron Man" magazine-pages 32,33,and 54).

Regards and best wishes
Ron

John Prink

10-09-2006, 08:23 PM

Right you are Ron!

I remember reading several articles through the americanpowerliftevolution.net website in regards to Casey's routines.

He did power cleans with his routine, those super heavy DB inclines, weighted dips, triceps extensions (French Curls) while lying on aflat bench and pullover and press. Nothing fancy at all.

One thing I noticed about lifters from 30 or more years ago is they seemed to train the lifts more often than the average powerlifter does now. It wasn't uncommon to bench press 3x a week....now, that would be considered overtraining. Though I have talked to a few people I work with who do the powerlifts, or a version of them 3x a week. Of course, they're in the late 20's so they have youth on their side, unlike me. LOL!!!

I just have never been able to handle that type of volume nor have I made much progress on training all three or at least two of the three powerlifts all on the same day. Its just too much volume for me and really hurts my recovery....

So Ron, now that you're using the upright row in your routine, you're not experiencing any shoulder impingement from them? That is actually one exercise I truly like to perform, but it never fails that once I get into them, after a few weeks my shoulders start to really hurt, not just ache, but the joint actually hurts. The pain I get from them has woken me up at night. I applaud your efforts in using that exercise.

I wonder if DB's would allow me to perform the upright row and get some benefit from the movement? I've also heard of people using a trap shrug bar to perform these....I read somewhere awhile ago that Kelso himself recommended the movement. It would seem you'd get limited benefit from it because you'd only be capable of pulling the bar only so high....seems like it'd have a really limited range of movement, but I guess some people get benefit from them.

Cheers,

JP

Old Olympic Lifter

10-10-2006, 01:36 AM

Hi John

So Ron, now that you're using the upright row in your routine, you're not experiencing any shoulder impingement from them? That is actually one exercise I truly like to perform, but it never fails that once I get into them, after a few weeks my shoulders start to really hurt, not just ache, but the joint actually hurts. The pain I get from them has woken me up at night. I applaud your efforts in using that exercise.
I wonder if DB's would allow me to perform the upright row and get some benefit from the movement? I've also heard of people using a trap shrug bar to perform these....I read somewhere awhile ago that Kelso himself recommended the movement. It would seem you'd get limited benefit from it because you'd only be capable of pulling the bar only so high....seems like it'd have a really limited range of movement, but I guess some people get benefit from them.
Cheers,
JP

What width grip were you using on your upright rows,John?.I often employed an extremely narrow grip in the past,with my hands almost touching.I'm now using a grip just slightly wider than shoulder width,which in my case seems to place far less stress on the shoulder joints.I've found that the most important point,though,is to 'lead' the movement by pulling the elbows 'UP and OUT',as Kono suggests.I would imagine that using dumbbells would allow a good range of movement,but I don't really fancy the idea of using a trap bar.

Regards and best wishes
Ron

srh

10-10-2006, 07:02 AM

Ron;

If I recall those Casey training sessions on American Powerlifting Revolution were from the late 50s and first part of the 1960s. The program I posted was apparently done much later in his career. As I stated in another post (Off Topic) where I moved the discussion to this may have been part of an overall training scheme such as peaking or was he in the latter part of his career like Jim Williams and others who has build a sound foundation and did not need to do all the other work for the bench press. Either way the results he obtained from his various programs cannot be argued with.

My brother at age almost 61 used the short version I posted a couple of years back with some modifications benched pressed 265 just missing 275. He also performed a 185 pound seated press. Both lifts were done at a bodyweight of about 190 lbs. He heads a very large drywall corporation ( and works 60 plus work hours per week) resulting in limited time to train.

Jeff Everson is a fine individual whom I respect and in his “Planet Fitness” has had many fine articles and pictures of forgotten “Old Timers” in strength. However, if you look at some of the numbers he has used in various articles the are “little off”. For example In Planet Muscle Volume 2, Number 3, 2000 ”The Strongest Man in History” page 71 he states in a comparison between Patera and Alexeev; “Patera did a 505 lbs. press, 405 (?) snatch, and a 505 C&J.” In another part of the article on page
sixty-eight he states that Alexeev’s best C&J 557 (?), etc, etc. He also states that Alexeeve weighed about 330. Actually later in his career, just before his failure in 1980 Iron Man reported him weighing 161.5 kg (over 355 lbs). I will look for the article.

In Muscular Development page 18 1971 it lists Pat Casey’s bench press record at 617 ¼. There is also another MD from 1968 I have that also lists it at the same weight. In the American Power Scene by Oscar State page 33 1969, January it lists the record as 617 1/4. Lifting News, June 1967 page 5 has the record at 615. I do not wish to be a “nit-picker” and split hairs, as there are far too many of those folks around on various other sites.

I recall one article in S&H I believe where it stated that Vlasov did not perform front squats as they caused too much strain on his body. However, in Lifting News (I will locate issue and date if needed) I saw a report on one of his workouts where he front squatted with 485x3 and then 535x3.

On to more positive and interesting things. Ron, In the November 1955 Issue of Lifting News page three by Perry Rader there is a photo of Paul Anderson pressing in the training facilities before the Worlds. It states “Anderson is seen doing three reps with 412 pounds. All of them good presses.” This is far more than the 409 he did at that time. This if factual would be make his maximum considerable more, at least 425-430?

On the subject of bodybuilders strength. In the book “Weight Training” by Philip J. Rasch, 1966. He has on page 72 a picture and article about 1964 Mr. A. Val Vasileffe. It claims that 220 lbs he pressed 315, snatched 270, C&J 360, bench press 450 and squat 600. I know that claims are often exaggerated, but 40 years ago there were a “little” less likely so than today. I will look for official competition or pictures on him. Do you have any information about him. I will ask a close friend of mine who had contact with him in the mid-1960s.

Sincerely,

Srh (Randy)

John Prink

10-10-2006, 11:04 PM

Hi John

What width grip were you using on your upright rows,John?.I often employed an extremely narrow grip in the past,with my hands almost touching.I'm now using a grip just slightly wider than shoulder width,which in my case seems to place far less stress on the shoulder joints.I've found that the most important point,though,is to 'lead' the movement by pulling the elbows 'UP and OUT',as Kono suggests.I would imagine that using dumbbells would allow a good range of movement,but I don't really fancy the idea of using a trap bar.

Regards and best wishes
Ron

Hi Ron,

I used a rather close grip - about 8 inches between the index fingers and kept the bar close to the body while pulling up. I also keep my feet together rather than taking a shoulder width stance. I've used the shoulder width (or wider) grip in the past....not sure if I like them or not.

I didn't like the trap bar version either....

JP

John Prink

10-13-2006, 01:31 PM

Deadlift day - belt only on heavier sets
Sumo style
135x5
205x5
245x5
285x5
305x5
345x4 - belt
375x2 - belt
335x5
305x3 for 2 sets standing on 45's

Shrugs - 155 2x15 & 175 2x15

Calf raises - 255 for 3x15

Leg curls 100 4x10

barbell side bends 90lbs. 15 reps each side

and a new exercise on my Power Rings called "abdominal fallouts" - its a similiar exercise to using an abdominal wheel....felt great 2x10

Decided to just take it a bit easier today on the deadlift....working a lot of hours lately and not really getting enough rest.....glad to have done 410 last week and 375 for a double this week. Felt like I could've done maybe two more reps with the 375.....there's always next week.

Cheers,

JP

John Prink

10-20-2006, 08:09 PM

Its been a hell of a week at work...haven't had time to post, but have managed to get my training done. Monday was a squat day after a very long and busy day at work. I managed to just get a few sets of medium weighted squats and assistance work in. Nothing heavy at all. But at least I squatted.

Wednesday I did some seated pressing and close grip benching and that's about all I had time for. Did some ab work.

This morning I was well rested and managed to get a great deadlift workout going. I pulled 375x3 with just a belt. They felt great....I felt great afterwards too!! I finished with a few "down sets" for triples and trained some deadlifts while standing on plates - 315x3 reps; two sets. All in alll I did about 11 sets of deadlifts.

I then did: one arm DB rows for 2x8, leg curls 2x15, calf raise 3x15 and shrugs 1x20 reps. I finished with abs...

I'll bench Sunday. I've been writing (e-mailing) Ricky Dale Crain regarding training. I like his training style and admire his accomplishments in the powerlifting world. His ideas are sound and simple and seem to work for me.

Following his deadlift routine I was able to break some sticking points and get a new PR. I'm following the same thing type of routine for my squat. I've started using his principles for the bench press. They seem to be working....i keep everyone posted.

Cheers,

JP

Old Olympic Lifter

10-21-2006, 11:19 PM

Hi John

This morning I was well rested and managed to get a great deadlift workout going. I pulled 375x3 with just a belt. They felt great....I felt great afterwards too!! I finished with a few "down sets" for triples and trained some deadlifts while standing on plates - 315x3 reps; two sets. All in alll I did about 11 sets of deadlifts.
JP

Well done,John - that should be good for a 430 single,at least.Just curious,do you still intend doing a max training single in the near future?
Regards and best wishes
Ron

John Prink

10-22-2006, 12:43 AM

Singles training? yes, indeed.....I find the singles don't burn me out. I like doing them for the deadlifts and the squat. I don't seem to have too much luck with singles for the bench press though. I like doing a few more reps on the bench than just singles. I have experimented with them in the past for the bench and I'm just not sure if they work for me. I seem to get the same results on the bench press using singles as I do using multiple reps.

The triple I did on the deadlift was merely for the heck of it. I think I'll try to get 5 reps with and then bump up the weight 10 pounds.

I do, however, make really fast progress on my deadlift by doing multiple singles....but since I tend to excel at the deadlift anyway I don't think it much matters what I do. The deadlift is one of those lifts I just gain on no matter how I train it. Now for the bench press, I'm experimenting with both a Ricky Dale Crain routine and a progressive descending rep routine written by Rick Gaugler for lifters over 40 years old.

The Gaugler routine is interesting because after warm ups you do 3 singles with progressively heavier weights, then something like 5x5, 4x4, 3x3, 2x2, over succeeding weeks. Then a few pause sets to finish. Ricky's routine works on the principle of multiple exercises for a few sets as opposed to one single exercise for multiple sets. The RDC heavy day bench routine is:

Bench Press

Lockouts - grip is one hand space in - I use towels of course for this movement

Declines - bench grip - useful for the arched bencher

Cambered bar press - not sure what I'll substitute here. I might just use a tricep exercise in place of the cambered bar.....seems too rough on the shoulders and the point of this movement is to correct any problems you have getting the bar off your chest.

The light bench day is CGBP's and inclines with shoulder work. I do the shoulder work first and finish with the CGBP....I'm foregoing the extra shoulder work right now as the combo of the press and CGBP is enough....worked for Tommy Kono, right? LOL!!!

I corrected the problem of getting the bar off my chest by bringing my grip in a bit....now I need to work on lockout work.

I e-mailed RDC about his routine and he wrote back saying that its OK to use 5x5 for all the exercises which would mean about 20 total sets of bench pressing....alternately he said one could use just 3 sets of each too to get the same effect....this is the approach I'll use.

Gogiants

10-22-2006, 02:22 PM

Can't comment on your training other than it looks good to me. I just wanted to say that RDC sure seems like a good guy. I met him once when I dropped by Crain's Muscle World to buy a video. Friendly man ideed. Sounds like he is willing to help out too.
Jack

John Prink

10-22-2006, 08:07 PM

RDC's routine(s) are similiar to what I was doing....I made a few modifications but the premise is the same. He recently had a hip replacement, which is really scary when you consider he's only in his early 50's but its got be no doubt attributed to years of heavy squats and deadlifts - he pulled 716 pounds or some phenomenal weight like that.

I just admire the fact that here's a guy who is able to make and break records and didn't use "Westside" to do it...he just used good old fashioned hard training.....

John Prink

10-22-2006, 10:08 PM

Did my new BP routine today. Following the Ricky Crain template:

Bench Press - 3x5 with 185 nice and smooth after a few warm ups

Lockouts - 3x5 with 185 and a close grip to towels - tried using more weight but 185 was it. He isn't kidding when he says to use the same weight that you benched with. Attempting anymore than that was difficult. Anyway, the 3x5 was a nice rep scheme. He recommended using a hand spacing about 3-5 fingers in from your competition grip.

Decline - (not too deep) with 180 3x5 with competition grip

He recommended cambered bar presses, wide grip bench or DB flyes next. Since I don't have a cambered bar to bench with, hate wide grip bench with a passion and despise DB flyes (tore my pec from my sternum once with that damn exercise)....I decided to do suspended pushups on my power rings for 3x10 with a 3-5 second hold at the bottom on the last few reps.

Finished with curls - wide grip straight barbell for 3x8 reps and Ab work.

I will try to up everything to at least 4-5 sets over the next few weeks to increase the volume a bit. I'm feeling pretty strong and think I have all the bases covered. Next bench day is an assistance day. RDC recommends doing CGBP's with about 80-85% of the heavy day's work weight and incline presses. I'm modifying it a bit to start with seated high incline presses first for 5x5 followed by the CGBP's as he recommends for 5x5.....followed by a the laterals (front/side/rear) he suggests. CGBP's, which never woroked for me in the past, have been really helping me along with the bench. I like holding the reps at the bottom and feeling the stretch in the triceps.....

Squats up next....

JP

John Prink

10-24-2006, 10:59 PM

Squats today...worked up to 12 sets of squats....

135x10 narrow
185x5 narrow
225x3 narrow
260x1 and 3 reps wide stance
285x1 wide
320x1 wide
275x5 wide
260x3 narrow
235x3 narrow stance
235x 3 2 sets of 3 second pauses

toe raise 3x15

leg curls 3x12

shrugs 3x12

abs

John Prink

10-26-2006, 04:56 PM

Bench assistance today -

Seated hi incline press - worked up to 155x3 and then a single.....not bad considering I haven't used this exercise for awhile.....but it is coming along.

CGBP from pins 145x6 top set

Barbell rows - 155 5 sets of 8 with various grips wide and narrow

Triceps extensions from floor with dumb bells 25 3 sets

Wide grip barbell curls 75 3x8.....these are filling in the area on the inside of the elbow on the bicep....I'm liking these.

Abs

Decent workout. I'm finding that I really need to maintain the tricep specific work to aid the presses and the bench. I especially notice my press will drop off if I neglect specific tricep work.

John Prink

10-29-2006, 10:10 PM

Saturday - Deadlifted and worked up to 380x2 RAW....did 2 sets of 3 off plates with 320....

Toe raises, leg curls and shrugs and abs.....

JP

John Prink

11-02-2006, 04:51 PM

Monday was BP's worked up to 4 sets of 4 with 190.....This was a Maroscher routine from the Chicago powerlifting crew. Crain's routine, though fun to do was a bit too much volume for my liking. This was more managable but still a bit much.

Also did bar rows - until I find something else to do....probably will go to either pullups or DB rows becuase these are stressing my lower back a bit too much.
I did 6 sets of 6 on these with 3 sets using a bench grip and 3 sets with a narrow grip.

Floor triceps extensions with DB 3x12

Wide grip curls 3x8

Today was as sqaut workout:

135x10
185x5
225x3
265x3 - 2 sets
295x1
325x1
300x2
280x3
265x3
240x3 for 2 sets of pauses

Leg curls 110x3x12
Toe raises 255x3x15
DB shrugs - 95 pounders for 3x12
Side bends 80 pound barbell for 2x12
Roman chari sit ups with 25 lb plate for 20 reps

Bench tomorrow....maybe a singles routine..

Comtemplating having a back/shoulder day on a separate day from the bench day. As the weights are getting heavier, I'm finding it a little dificult to get thruough the workout with the added assistance work - assistance work that is a MUST for successful bench pressing.....the saga continues.....

John Prink

11-03-2006, 08:11 PM

Had a long discussion with a former work out buddy in regards to benching, since I've been so frustrated with it lately. He convinced me to re-evaluate my training and super simplify it down to bare bones, but increase the amount of benching to three days a week. After talking to him and reading the training of the powerlifters in the golden age of powerlifting I decided to give the three day a week benching routine a trial run to see how things go.

He said he got his bench moving by training it 5 days a week and doing 4x10-15 reps. When asked how he felt doing that, and how did it relate to a max single, he laughed and said...."you think too much"....and I agreed.LOL!!!

I trained and competed with him. I remember that he did do a lot more reps than the average powerlifter and registered a BP of 402 without much effort after a few months of training. Now granted he is built to bench but he did just the bench press and it worked for him, so I'm going to heed his advice and give it a shot. I've got nothing to loose at this point and everything to gain.

Basically I went back to an old routine I'd been doing earlier in the year which, while it had a bit of volume to it, was a plateau buster for sure.

It goes as follows:

There is a light day which is rotated in between an "A", "B" & "C" workout. The a,b,c, workouts are 4x5,4x4,& 4x3 respectively. The light day is always 4 sets of 10-12, then 8-10 then as many reps as I can get on the last two sets. Weight is added to the sets whenever possible is not locked into any mandatory weight increase at any time interval other than whenever I can use more weight.

The routine called for chest, shoulder and triceps assistance on the light days and shoulder and tricep work on the heavy days. I've modified it a bit to include either a close grip bench press from bottom position pins or triceps extensions from the floor and some curls on both days....that's it.

Today I did the light day as follows -

95 for 2x8
135 for 2x5
165x12,11,10,8

CGBP - 115x3 sets of 10-12 - these blow torch my upper body. I bring the bar down to the pins at the chest, to a dead stop, but I do not release any tension on the triceps. I press straight up from there. I've used more weight on these but just wanted to start this program slowly and steadily.

Curls - 85x3x5 reps wide grip

Ab work

done...........

Monday - will be the A workout with 4x5 at 185 with pauses
either cgbp's or the DB extensions and that's it.

Tuesday - a Ken Snell deadlift routine.....a few more reps, with a few less sets, but still keeping the weight rather heavy.

So basically the BP end of the routine will be on M,W,F and the squat and deadlift will be fit in accordingly once in 9-10 days. I'll rely on the bench press alone to build the bench press and keep the routine to the bare bones.

The beauty of this is that if I have to miss a day for whatever reason I can get right back on track without having to worry about there being too many days off between workouts or training lifts. I'll just pick up where I left off.

If a deadlift workout falls during the week in between one of the bench workouts, I will forego bicep work in lieu of pullups or DB rows. Shrugs and/or rack pulls will be added whenever I feel good.

JP

Old Olympic Lifter

11-04-2006, 12:43 AM

Hi John

Saturday - Deadlifted and worked up to 380x2 RAW....did 2 sets of 3 off plates with 320....
JP

Very impressive,John.How much extra do you get from the belt and suit? - I'm picking around 10%,which could soon give you the 'magic' 200kg (441lb) single

Regards and best wishes
Ron

John Prink

11-04-2006, 02:35 AM

Not sure Ron....the suit I wear is very old....its still pretty tight through the legs but not like it was when it was new. I bought it at least 10 or 11 years ago....I wore it for both squats and deadlifts when I competed in full power meets.....this was of course before they had separarte suits for each lift.

On the squat I'm hovering right at 325 lbs for a single right now with old, old, old wraps and my power belt. I find I need the wraps for the support. If I were to wear my competition wraps, which probably have only about 9-12 squats on them, I'd probably squat more.

A 200kg deadlift sure would be really sweet!!....that would certainly be a milestone for me.

As I'm embarking on this new (and albeit crazy) idea of benching three times a week, I know I'll find that I'll have to do a minimum of assistance in order to make the program effective. And, actually, I'm looking forward to the challenge. I figure the worst that can happen is that I'll back off the benching.

I can report that as I type this, my entire upper body is sore just from the little bit of training I did do this morning....but sore in a good way...:)

Monday is bench again, and Tuesday I'll most likely just hit the new deadlift routine.

Cheers,

JP

John Prink

11-07-2006, 12:02 AM

BP -

95x8
115x8
135x5
155x3
155x2
185 4 sets of 5 paused

1 set of 15 DB "L" laterals for some rotator cuff work/felt good/didn't over-do it at all

Rolling DB extensions from floor 3x15,12,12

ABS

Tomorrow Deadlift - Ken Snell routine depending on how I feel....may just continue with the singles and triples since they're working for me

Lorrie

11-07-2006, 12:17 AM

I like your plan...really thought out.

John Prink

11-07-2006, 09:40 PM

HI Lorrie,

Thanks....how's your training going as of late?

Lorrie

11-08-2006, 10:21 AM

I haven't lifted in almost three months. (!!!) I'm leaning out and relying on a high protein diet and Tae Kwon Do (lots of pushups and kicks) to keep me from losing too much muscle. I'm sore often and I'm seeing more definition, so I guess it's going well! Can't wait to get back to lifting though...

John Prink

11-08-2006, 08:59 PM

TKD....I like it, I like it!! A buddy of mine took up that martial art about 20 years ago after some weight training injuries.....he built up on it too and is very tough.

He's instructing kids now on this martial art.....its quite impressive to watch, that's for sure.

I tried to get myself into a disciplne like that years ago when I was a kid. I was very small when I was younger and could've used the discipline. I ended up learning the ancient art of "pick up whatever implement is in the street and hit first"....and the ever popular ancient art of running.....which incidently I was quite good at...LOL!!

Once I discovered the weights, started putting on weight and consequently was able to hit harder, I suppose it wasn't so much fun for the neighborhood bullies I encountered...LOL!!

John Prink

11-17-2006, 04:03 AM

Putting log on hold for awhile....with the holidays coming up....and all, I'm just gonna train and not worry about posting.....

Old Olympic Lifter

11-19-2006, 06:07 PM

Putting log on hold for awhile....with the holidays coming up....and all, I'm just gonna train and not worry about posting.....

Hi John
Sorry to hear that you won't be posting on your training log for a while - I hope that you'll still maintain contact with the forum,though.This site seems to be losing quite a few of the 'regulars' lately - Jack (Gogiants) has been absent for almost a month now,and with the recent 'sudden' departures of Tom and JeffS,I sincerely hope that this trend doesn't continue.Good luck with your training,John - come back soon.

Regards and best wishes
Ron

Gogiants

11-19-2006, 06:14 PM

Yes John, please make sure you come back.

John Prink

11-20-2006, 02:04 AM

Old Olympic Lifter

11-21-2006, 01:58 AM

Relax.....=)....I'm not going anywhere and I still frequent the board everyday...I even answer posts and PM's....I'm just taking a break from the log, that's all...I'll be here everyday though....
On a training note though: instead of doing all the fancy percentage based training, I'm simply going to try doing a simple 5x5 routine with simple percentages.....
Cheers,
JP

Hi John
Great to hear that you'll still be checking the forum each day.

Although it may sound simple,John,5x5 is,IMHO,still one of the most beneficial programs a trainee can follow for building basic strength.Marty has advocated the benefits of sets of 'fives' in several different articles on this forum,and amongst other staunch supporters of their use,just to name a few,are men like Reg Park,Bill Starr,Marv Phillips,Larry Kidney,and Ed Coan.

Regards and best wishes
Ron